[sim5]

it was a 5p casino played on 16th dec
skunk3 , silly_sauce , gentlemen, landocalrissian & The_Artillery

at 50 start gentlemen who was almost out with -1100 & 1600 credit sold 3 dark blues to skunk3 for 1200
after that trade gentlemen survive for few laps but didnt have any chance for 4th place so in my opinion it was a 1 sided trade which only benefited skunk
at the end gentlemen came last easily as i said he was in no position to improve his rank after that trade
because i was in that game , i would like other mod to look at this
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[MATTIE]

trade accepted
game: 437208
game is not ranked
2009/12/16 15:08:01
players at start: 5
players alive: 5
start money: 50
roll: 284
game time: 36:7

players:
0 skunk3 points:27074 position: 5 cash: 2705 credit: 150
1 silly_sauce points:86205 position:19 cash: 679 credit: 480
2 gentlemen points:30571 position: 4 cash: -1114 credit: 1600
3 landocalrissian points:23266 position:30 cash: 98 credit: 250
4 The_Artillery points:24184 position:30 cash: 320 credit: 300

Trade:
From gentlemen to skunk3
Cash: 1200

1 color: 250 @= owner:3 h:3 Nanobot Hospital
2 color: 150 @= owner:2 tot:4 Information Network
3 color: 250 @= owner:3 h:3 Cellular Regeneration
5 color: 194 @= owner:3 tot:3 Water Extractors
6 color: 249 @= owner:4 h:5 Terraforming Facilities
8 color: 249 @= owner:4 h:5 Rain Generators
9 color: 249 @= owner:4 h:5 Hydroponics Bay
11 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Emotion Market
12 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Brainplug Reality Center
13 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Holo Dome
14 color: 150 @= owner:2 tot:4 Pipes
15 color: 194 @= owner:3 tot:3 Air Extractors
16 color: 247 @= owner:1 h:5 Antigravitational Transpo
18 color: 247 @= owner:1 h:5 Space Elevator
19 color: 247 @= owner:1 h:5 Teleportation Control
21 color: 253 @= GIVING owner:2 h:0 Superconducting Magnetic
22 color: 253 @= GIVING owner:2 h:0 Anti Matter Power Plant
24 color: 253 @= GIVING owner:2 h:0 Cold Fusion Power Plant
25 color: 194 @= owner:3 tot:3 Carbon Extractors
26 color: 254 @= no owner Timewarp Restaurant
27 color: 150 @= owner:2 tot:4 Garbage Dezintegrators
28 color: 254 @= no owner Intergalactic Hotel
29 color: 254 @= owner:2 Cyborg Theatre
31 color: 252 @= owner:0 h:3 Zero Gravity Lab
33 color: 252 @= owner:0 h:3 Spaceport
34 color: 252 @= owner:0 h:3 Interstellar Gate
35 color: 194 @= owner:1 tot:1 Silicon Extractors
36 color: 251 @= owner:1 Planetary Marketing
37 color: 150 @= owner:2 tot:4 Energy Channeling Center
38 color: 251 @= no owner Brainwave Propaganda Stud
39 color: 251 @= owner:1 Brainwave Propaganda Tran

100 % cheat trade , gentlemen was going to be last , this trade nothing but gave him a few rounds extra, i have seen boss linger in the shadow area of trading in the past , his trades have been questioned in the past - but this is a blatant cheat trade. Gentlemen loses his stake ( 20k) for this game

25% point reduction for skunk3 for accepting the trade ,also considering the fact that he did offer to reverse the trade in chat.

[CANON]

So what does this mean to the Casino game outcome?

[sim5]

tks matti
according to casino rules if there is a cheat trade then
Cheaters in this format of the game will be automatically declared last, it takes two to cheat , so the player offering the trade gets the last place and accepting the trade will earn the player a one but last place.
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[aussie]

without having to work too hard to read the trade logs ...plz explain who owned what........everone seemed low on cash
_________________
why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[boss2boss]

mattie, this is totally unjustice, i was on -980 (approx) negative, i had 4 blacks with me and everyone was low on cash, moreover everyone in similar position had properties with income of hardly 200 on a round, at this point only skunk had money with 1900 on cash, so i started to trade with him. Started offering 2k till 1400, he kept rejecting, finally i send a trade with cost price of 1200, which he accepted it and i got benefited. I survived for many rounds with cash of 1200 in hand while almost all had the same amount in few rounds, i had a better chance of coming 4th or 3rd.

Whatever ur analysis or justification to be as cheat, but in my opinion honestly i got benefited and he too, pls clarify me what is rule to be as cheat, while both of us got benefited, how come u consider this as cheat.

I would like to see a fair justice.

And aslo, i request players of gm to read this and to put ur opinion so ridiculous claim like sim should be stopped and fair justice should be given.

[sim5]

boss how skunk3 was benefited with this trade when he was winning already & was sure of 1st position
he just did this trade to save u & later on he bought ur 4 blacks for 700 odd in auction to make sure u remain longer in game when he didnt need that again
thing is after this trade u still lost easily as u didnt have anything to trade
just 4 blacks cant save u at start 50 if u dont have cash & credit, while others have sets
bottomline is skunk3 shouldnt have traded at all as he was 100% sure of a 1st position before the trade
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[boss2boss]

sim, let the readers of this judge it and give their opinion, i dont like to argue with u when your judgement is absolutely ridiculous. what is your concern here?

[Eclectico]

Sim, do you honestly believe Weed or Boss cheated? They have both been playing for a long time and i have never noticed evidence of teaming / using mulitple accounts / etc.

In the past few years I have noticed the mod's definition of cheat trades has become increasingly finnicky. It puts to much pressure on mods to try to decide who is technically "already winning" and does not benefit from a trade. If a player buys a little extra stuff just to end the game faster, that alone is a "benefit" to that player.


To all mods:

It is beyond reason to try to explicitly define the word "benefit" in your current definition of cheat trades. You must use your gut instinct. If you think people are using mulitple computers, teaming up, or such... then rule following your heart and ban / reduce points / whatever. But, please make sure your decisions are to protect GM players from "dishonest cheaters". I dont think it's the modd's place to nanny patrol and punish a player for being selfish or perhaps showing a little favoritsim in who they trade with.

[sim5]

i never said they teamed
but when skunk3 was sure of a first place why he traded to save other player ?
just to end game fast doesnt mean he can help other
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[Eclectico]

My point is that it is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION that he was SURE OF 1st PLACE. This cannot be proven. 1 possible scenairio: people hit bonuses the next 10 rolls. Suddenly everyone has 2500 more cash. In this case it helped him to buy blues. Blues basically cost him nothing (1200 credit is nearly as good as 1200 cash). But, blues bough him "insurance" in case of a lot of bonuses. Yes this is unlikely, but not impossible!

Now you and i would agree it might not be a necessary move for him to buy that blue insurance. But not all people think like us. Not all people are the same level of experience either. Would you blame a complete beginner for accepting that trade? Probably not.

It would just make more sense to me if the definition of cheat trade was really used more sparingly. The point is to stop multiaccounting cheaters and buddies from teaming up. If you really think Weed was trying to help Boss and hurt you... then yes this was teaming. If not... it's just not necessary for the mods to waste their time pouring over every borderline case because of some vague "techincality" that really isn't easy to prove.

[Fort]

Player 0 : Rent of 910..................Cash of 2705....junk nothing
Player 1 : Rent of 600+90 = 690...Cash of 679......junk of 2 greens.
Player 2 : Rent of 600..................Cash of -1114...junk of 3 dark blue+2 reds,
Player 3 : Rent of 390+390...........Cash of 98.......junk nothing
Player 4 : Rent of 300+360...........Cash of 320.....junk nothing



Player 0 is winner but cant be said conclusively because its pink, one of worst performers. Player 2 if takes 1200 then he is almost at similar level as player 3 or 4. So after trade player 0 strengthens his 1st position while player 2 gets a ray of hope to finish ahead of player 3 or 4.

Sorry but i dont think it was a blatant cheat, grey area certainly yes... but then we dont punish grey areas right ? !

P.S. Sim and boss both are few of my best friends out here so i was really wondering if i m doing more harm than good by posting this , but i m sure both of them are matured enough to take it sportingly.

[Nilo911]

New players have already hard time calculating if a trade is below the base value or not.

Now to calculate if it is beneficial or not, thats a big thinker, especially for new players.

Keep the game simple.1200 is the base value, so its not a cheat, end of story.

And one more thing.Would you be talking about this incident if there was no casino steak?

[sim5]

sry it doesnt matter if its a casino game or normal & trades done at base value always cant be fair
all trades should give both players advantage to improve his rank & if trade is fair or cheat only depends on game situation

ur point is good eclectico & i want to tell u mods do consider about bonuses in game & luck factor to some extent but judgement cant be made just alone taking luck factor
both players r good but what they did is not good for game

what boss did try to do in this game was not good even after the trade by auctioning his 4 blacks when he was out & others had upgraded sets but not much cash & the only person who had cash + pink + blue set was weed who bought his 4 blacks just to make sure he can get 1 more lap
so both made mistakes
boss didnt get any adavantage to improve his rank by selling 3 blues for 1200 other than just survive for few laps
if mods do allow such thing that all trades r fair if a person can get few more laps this can cause problem in future

fort u forget the de grade assets which others have but boss didnt & in my opinion weed was winning easily as he had lot of cash with upgraded pinks
ur view pink is a worst performers is not true sorry as it was as good as a green in this particular game

at the end i am not against weed or boss they both r good & i enjoy playing with them
i think it will be better if head mod gaz can make his own judgement as boss is not happy with the verdict
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[Eclectico]