[trace567]

I have looked into all the surrounding issues related to a) crabbs complaint against tline
b) the chat after the game between Bez and him in a private room
c) the post made by crabbs and bez on the sauna related to the above discussion

Now as there are all the above points to the entire issue I will do my best here to break it down.

a) the complaint crabbs made regardling tline. Both I find were actually in the wrong here. tline does not fully get his facts straight. Crabbs was both sending unreasonable offers, and some reasonable ones. Yet tline did at no time counter any offer. So both are actually wrong. Crabbs was not directly rude, or really offensive toward tline in game. So I can't ban him on that.
I refuse to rule on any non trade complaint at this time. I looked over it simply to see if crabbs was being out of order in game. I find he was not out of line sufficient to warrant any action.

If he ignores my request and statement that I will not rule upon any non trade at this time then I have grounds to act. If he is deeply rude, offensive, insulting in games since he has been warned about this, again I can act on this with a ban. As yet I cannot find anything ban worthy there.

b) The chat between Bez and Crabbs after the above game. I see at the end of the chat bez mentioning about his manner towards others. This is fair comment. Prior to this at the start of the conversation (directly after crabbs game, where by tline has approached bez in lobby about it). Bez speaks with crabbs without prior knowledge of what actually took place in game, only what tline has told him.

I do find though that whilst the conversation may have not been meant by bez in this way, it comes across that crabbs is being told to stop all talk on non trading issue. This if perceived in that way would be wrong, as it is not unfair for this issue to be discussed within the sauna. It has been proved that i myself did at least once make a point reduction to a non trader. It is also without doubt that at some point that rule not only existed but was occasionally enforced upon. Therefore to say it was never a rule is not correct.
Therefore I find the conversation whilst not necessarily meant to imply the entire discussion must be dropped, but rather that he must not hound, pester players in games related to this non trading issue could be read as meaning the entire issue must be stopped.

c) The Sauna posts after that chat.

The manner of which Crabbs posted was insulting towards Bez. It implied things of which are 100% not true. That he does no work here (he certainly does) and second insinuating that Bez may have deleted or removed the rules on non trading. This is impossible because Bez not only does not have the power to delete freely, even edit would show up. More importantly Bez was NOT a forum moderator when this rule vanished. I do not know when it vanished but it must be a pretty long time back. I hadn't even noticed that it was gone. Nor do I recall where it even was, was it a post by kreso, or was it a post by fort, or was it a post by Bill2k06....I really don't know.

But due to the fact that the conversation could be miss read by Crabbs, I can see he might be angry if he felt he wasn't allowed to talk about non trading even in the sauna.


ROUND UP

I believe at this time I CANNOT ban crabbs. However I have strict guidelines for him, and I will ban if he crosses either one of these:

1) He must not drag non trading rule up in games, or bully, intimidate, or be rude to players in game who will not trade. All the time the issue is only at discussion level it cannot be bought into games.

2) He must not be insulting to moderators, or players. There is to be no more posting polls against users. No more moron, or alike within games. There is to be no name calling.

3) If he has a problem with the action of any moderator, he is NOT to post on the forum things which will cause upset. He may and has every right to say he would like a moderators chat to him to be looked at as he felt it was wrong. Or he can simply ask that moderator to clarify what they were saying.

I will not tolerate ANY more insults. If he has a problem he must speak about it in a respectful and fair way to allow that to be investigated.
I will not have any more posts on the complaint section on non trading until the debate and decision process has been gone through.

1 more insulting post will receive immediate ban. There are other better ways to resolve conflict without resorting to abuse, insults and alike.

Cyndi may wish to review this and do whatever she feels necessary. This is my stand on it.

I would like to post this in the main forum

[trace567]

I originally posted this in the mod section and after they had seen it was going to post it here. Unfortunately Crabbs then responded to a post again in a way that thus meant I felt the need to issue a ban.

I just wanted this out in the open rather than in the mod section, as it is my full review of the situation.

[cline]

Edited:

I moved the post to suggestion box

[trace567]

[CANON]

Good ruling Trace... and I hope this shows people exactly how much work it is just considering various scenarios... and that we don't "just ban" people.

I agree with your ruling 100%