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Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:15 pm |
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britter
Planetoid
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 48
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| Post subject: naughty_noodle, Ceezy, Green_T and Fun4me |
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pls can u look into a trade between naughty_noodle and Ceezy...
Ceezy sold both yellow to naughty_noodle for 600... not given any chance for auktion....
I finished the game at 15:09 Danish time
Fun4me
aka
Britter |
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:19 pm |
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CheezyCrust
Planetoid
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Paris
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He gave me 700 + black + one brown for 2 yellows
That's fair
I needed money to going out from negative and build and what he gave me was fair value. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:03 am |
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MATTIE
Ex Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 309
Location: Cardiff, UK
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trade accepted
game: 450818
game is ranked
2010/02/08 14:09:00
players at start: 4
players alive: 3
start money: 145
roll: 194
game time: 22:43
players:
0 naughty_noodles points: 9486 position:19 cash: 2371 credit: 420
1 CheezyCrust points: 3742 position:16 cash: -774 credit: 1450
2 Green-T points:10725 dead
3 Fun4me points: 3831 position: 5 cash: 1979 credit: 410
Trade:
From naughty_noodles to CheezyCrust
Cash: -700
taking 2 yellows ( making a set) , giving 1 brown ( noone owns the other 2) , last black on board ( 3 others owned by fun4me)
after spending a lot more time than what we normally do on a complaint and talking to Trace , we both agree that this trade though mutually beneficial on paper ( 1400 rough value of 4th black + 700 cash + 300 rough value of first brown) is still advantageous to only one person (naughty_noodle), though not an outright cheat.
the main reason for that being fun4me rejected two perfectly good offers for the last black from sims , he had 3 blacks and sims had 3 whites , each stuck with the others fourth , fun4me had shown no interest in acquiring the fourth , so there is no guarantee that he would trade with cheezy later for the fourth black.
A warning here for sims for the trade. please watch your trades from now on - if you know it is not mutually beneficial , its a cheat, you will be penalized next time.
and to cheezycrust , you need to be in gm record books for the most consecutively reported player at the shortest period of time. one more complaint , i am issuing a ban , and i will be watching your games from now on. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:46 am |
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trace567
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We discussed this trade at length after both viewing it seperately, I requested Matt's opinion also after viewing it myself. I agree 100% with all Matt has stated. This trade does appear by the previous offers on black, and the position cheezy was in to be taking some advantage of cheezys situation of being in negative. Also having not secured a trade on black from fun4 prior to his offer to cheezy, I also feel this black became of poor value with a weak chance of trade potential. The brown was completely useless to cheezy at that stage in the game.
Whilst we do not feel this trade is directly punishable, as there is benefit on both sides we both agreed that we must issue a warning on this style of trading for the future and that penality may be taken in the future if a similar trade occurs. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:07 am |
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CheezyCrust
Planetoid
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Paris
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I think u target me MATTIE.
All was fair in these trade for naughty and me but u find something to reply.
Last black doesn't value 1400 when u give it to someone who have no blacks. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:41 am |
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sim5
Planet
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 900
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| mattie wrote: |
after spending a lot more time than what we normally do on a complaint and talking to Trace , we both agree that this trade though mutually beneficial on paper ( 1400 rough value of 4th black + 700 cash + 300 rough value of first brown) is still advantageous to only one person (naughty_noodle), though not an outright cheat.
the main reason for that being fun4me rejected two perfectly good offers for the last black from sims , he had 3 blacks and sims had 3 whites , each stuck with the others fourth , fun4me had shown no interest in acquiring the fourth , so there is no guarantee that he would trade with cheezy later for the fourth black.
A warning here for sims for the trade. please watch your trades from now on - if you know it is not mutually beneficial , its a cheat, you will be penalized next time. |
| trace567 wrote: | I also feel this black became of poor value with a weak chance of trade potential. The brown was completely useless to cheezy at that stage in the game.
Whilst we do not feel this trade is directly punishable, as there is benefit on both sides we both agreed that we must issue a warning on this style of trading for the future and that penality may be taken in the future if a similar trade occurs. |
can u tell is there any way cheezy could have known whether after getting 4th black from me fun4 who had 2000 cash in hand at 140 start was not willing to buy that 4th black that 2 after he spend nearly 1500 each to get those 3 blacks
answer is big NO
so what cheezy did was 100 % correct which gave him valuable 700 cash + a easy trading oppertunity as he would have been in good position after trade to sell 4th black + brown
even as ur saying 4th black is useless & have a poor trading oppertunity considering other guy has 3 blacks + 2000 cash at 140 start is a very bad view ,u should not forget also cheezy still got 700 cash for totally useless yellow as he already had pink set + blue set with 1 upgrade each
the only problem for him was he was in negative before trade, so after trade he got 700 cash which was enough for him to get out of negative + he could have degraded 1 blue to spend the cash on upgrading 2nd pink which was enough for him to get good income
you should also look at cheezy reply why he accepted this trade
if i would have been in his place i would have accepted the same
this trade gave benefit to both players
i got more from this trade because i was in better position to trade
there is no need for any1 to trade 50-50 in ratio if some1 is in better position to trade
u can trade by taking much & giving less all this depend on game situations
so this trade was not only good but very good trade & a perfect 1 at right time
one side ur saying trade was benefit to both player & at the same time giving warning dont do such trades...... you saying stuff which can confuse new players who should learn from such trades
i am sorry ur view about this trade calling it a bad 1 is 100% wrong , in my opinion this is how games should be played
one important thing i would like to say
i dont know who is cheezy but he did the right thing by trading which gave him good advantage
but ur threatning him by saying one more complaint & ur ban....
if some1 complaint against any1 doesnt mean he is wrong
i think u should avoid such thing as it can hurt particular player
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No expectations, no disappointments. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:53 pm |
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MATTIE
Ex Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 309
Location: Cardiff, UK
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| sim5 wrote: |
can u tell is there any way cheezy could have known whether after getting 4th black from me fun4 who had 2000 cash in hand at 140 start was not willing to buy that 4th black that 2 after he spend nearly 1500 each to get those 3 blacks
answer is big NO -
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- so u unknowingly here accepted that u were trying indeed to rip off cheezycrust , who doesnt know that he is getting a card whose value is utterly useless as the other person doesnt need it .
| Quote: |
even as ur saying 4th black is useless & have a poor trading oppertunity considering other guy has 3 blacks + 2000 cash at 140 start is a very bad view ,u should not forget also cheezy still got 700 cash for totally useless yellow as he already had pink set + blue set with 1 upgrade each
the only problem for him was he was in negative before trade, so after trade he got 700 cash which was enough for him to get out of negative + he could have degraded 1 blue to spend the cash on upgrading 2nd pink which was enough for him to get good income |
it was a total undervalue trading and you cannot deny it sims here , yes she had pink set and darkblue set , but even after the trade , she was still in -ve, a degrade on dark blue and an upgrade would leave her at -350 approx ( getting an approximate 100 income) and u are saying , she can win the game from there ? when there is yellow on board and oranges and start 145 , not exactly at start of the game is it ?
and for her to make anything out of the trade she has to be incredibly lucky or get cash for the fourth black ( which again as impossible as u know it)
u basically got 2 yellows for 700 at start 145 is the net answer ! which in many eyes would be a cheat trade.
all trades here will be judged on case bycase basis , the way we see it here, we have no doubts that you got rid of couple of cards which have no value absolutely to you and took advantage of a person in negative. if you have anymore issues on this ruling , please send a pm to me or trace .
and to cheezy, dont even bother wasting our time , if you dont understand what the issue is . |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:57 pm |
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sim5
Planet
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 900
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i cant see anything what cheezy did in this post that ur again threatning him for nothing
he was in this game so he has right to give his reply why he did this trade
which he posted in short & in a very good manner
so i request u not to use hard words against any1 in open if its not required as it can hurt some1
anyway i think once u have decided to call 4th black + brown utterly useless giving it 0 value
everything ends here
the only thing is mods r telling people not to buy 3rd party cards in trading as there is no guarantee of future trade so its value is 0 ... right my friend ???
anyway lets close this topic as ur doing a very good job & i hope u learn more from all these things
its always good to learn more & more & move farward
cheers 
_________________
No expectations, no disappointments. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:20 pm |
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trace567
Guest
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| sim5 wrote: |
anyway i think once u have decided to call 4th black + brown utterly useless giving it 0 value
everything ends here
the only thing is mods r telling people not to buy 3rd party cards in trading as there is no guarantee of future trade so its value is 0 ... right my friend ???
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The problem of trading with property cards, when you are trading them to a player who is not directly in need of that/those cards moderators DO have to then consider what value those cards are to that player.
In this case the black (4th) was traded too cheezy who owned no other blacks. Their only way to use this black card to benefit them would be via further trading. Further trading can never be guaranteed upon, therefore we have to estimate what kind of worth this card is to them. In this case as Fun4 had not accepted any previous trades involving black by you, you then were left with a black card you had nothing you could do with. You then passed this card over in a trade to cheezy. Cheezy no doubt thinking oh yes I can trade that and gain some cash took the trade. But you already were aware that the chance of cheezy securing any trade on black was extremely slim. You were able to offer fun4 black for white, or black for cash. These trades were not taken by fun4. So you effectively gave cheezy a relatively useless card, whilst gaining 2 yellow (of which you could easily upgrade instantly) in exchange for 700 cash, 1 black (of which trade potential was poor) and 1 brown of which was of no use to anyone at that time. Therefore you gained a full set (yellow) for very little (in the eyes of cheezy). In your eye's you gained a full set of yellow you could make instant use of, gave cheezy enough cash to get out of minus but no more to do anything further with their own sets to increase their income. Plus you managed to get shot of two property cards you had bought which were of little to no use to you.
Now we certainly do NOT prohibit the trading of property cards in trades to players who directly do not require those cards. But we do have to constantly bare in mind what use those cards are to the receiver. Its all well and good to place a mental value on any card but if the opponent cannot make use of them they are little value.
I am not happy with any situation where a player passes over property cards in order to bulk out the trade value, if it is of low probability that this player receiving them can use them. This in my eyes is conning a player into a trade of which you knowingly are getting by far the best deal. You traded to win with this trade, but even after the trade cheezy was left in a vulnerable position still. I cannot deny that cheezy clearly bought way too much property than they could handle. But that does not mean you and obtain a full set for 700 and a couple of token gesture cards they can't use. Without at least gaining a slap on the knuckles for it and a warning. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:31 pm |
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sim5
Planet
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 900
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i can give more than 1 example to show that this trade was a very good 1 for both players but i think its pointless
we should play this game using brain not with heart
2 wrongs cant make 1 right so lets stop justifying as its a end to this topic
_________________
No expectations, no disappointments. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:53 pm |
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MATTIE
Ex Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 309
Location: Cardiff, UK
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sim you know very well what the point is , i expect someone who posts here to have some clarity and understand the issue very clearly again , simple as that. there is nothing personal against anyone here. i am always to the point , you want me to sugar coat it ? sorry i dont do that.
and also i request you to stop using your sarcastic remarks here , it wont help you in anyway, if you do not agree with our decision please pm bill. |
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Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:01 pm |
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CheezyCrust
Planetoid
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Paris
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That's pathetic the way u think u are always right.
U want people play with the rules u created and not the rules of the website.
In 2 years and half here, i've never seen a mod like u who re-create GM's rules as he wants them to be.
U kill all the fun of the GM.
I won't play anymore this game as long as u here as a mod and even if it's useless i'll send a message to Bill (as u said we have to refer to him about ur decision)
| MATTIE wrote: | | (...)and to cheezy, dont even bother wasting our time , if you dont understand what the issue is . |
And u're not even polite !
That's not because i'm not good in english that i don't understand things. |
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