[mercedes]

The time now is Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:06 pm
i began a game consisting of 4 player
the game lasted almost 5 minutes
mercedesE200,,baffoe1,,quebecmen,,alytus
when the start index was at the outset 115
baffoe1 sold to quebecme 2pink 1400
min prise 800 X 2 = 1600
i think that this type of fraud and cheet
i hope to take the necessary action against those player
baffoe1 sold 2pink 1400 and not sold me 1 green 1500
baffoe1 got 3trd red 2000
frend alytus i am not stupid and i do not love yoo or other told me uttered words
i feel baffoe1 play against me
thxx

[mercedes]

i told those player to reverse the trade
i quit after that trade

[mercedes]

i try logg in game link
need new version update
is this meen i am ban?

[theunknownamus]

No no no! I think it would say "You are banned" if you were. Do not worry. It just means it couldn't connect temporarily. Try checking your connection or reconnect if necessary.

[trace567]

[trace567]

I've checked various things on this one. Past evidence of cheat trade point reductions, any bans etc. I've looked over both the trade accepted, and offers. Also the chat log. Neither of them has been banned on trading.

I'm going to try and break this down. There was only one point reduction showing in the system for quebecmen which was 11th Oct 09 (might of been on a diff username, i checked all). None for baffoe.

The chat log shows you requesting they reverse, and also baffoe asking quebecmen to. However, there is no trades sent to reverse after. Also baffoe was the one who sent quebecmen that trade anyway!

Also to note alytus scrolling whilst in game, so quick warning to them to please not scroll.

Now the actual trade accepted is borderline to just about passable. Reason is because baffoe was -500 cash in deep trouble and could be out any moment. QUEBECMEN was in a strong postition having both dark blue and orange fully upgraded, but alytus was also in a fairly good postion with 4 black yellow full and 1 white, and mercedes having 4k cash and 2 part sets (baffoe owning the 3rd red and 3rd green). Quebecmen had a lot of credit and good income. But his cash at the time of trade was low, 833. This trade was putting him into minus. However with the properties he owned, and start being 105 he was not really in trouble by this trade. But...he at that moment in time couldn't of paid anymore really, or barely anymore.
This trade clearly is benefical to both traders, one is in trouble, other has a good postion and the trade basically probably makes him a certain winner (if he gets to build). If baffoe didn't trade he was in big trouble. But he also owned 1 red which had trade potential and 1 green that had trade potiential. So in order to improve his rank he had to stay in the game. But I find it strange he chose quebecmen to trade with baring in mind his already strong postion, when mercedes had cash and remaining green and red.
The trade was 200 below base. Now base value is not 100% set in stone here. But as the trade is a little hazy on advancing (can only be done with more trading, and it would be tricky to be honest with the board getting expensive) also just under base its pushing into borderline area.

Now I'm not finished here, I was going to simply say this trade is just about passable. Till I dug deeper. Prior to this trade that was accepted, Quebecmen tried to buy the 2 pink from baffoe for 1000, 1200, and 1600. Baffoe sent the accepted one of 1400.

I'm not happy with the attempts to buy pink for 1000 and 1200. This is really going too far on pushing the boundry of whats ok.

Deciding exactly what penality if any, to place here has been very tricky. For the moment I have decided to make no reduction. But I will say I have seriously considered it, as the trade isn't too good, and the prior offers by quebecmen are even worse.

[HHHfan]

just gonna say, it could be easier than u think trace, if someone cant afford to make a fair trade, then, they shouldnt be allowed to trade till a fair decent trade could be made! if u did it that way, all rulings would be much easier and smoother for the mods, less time consuming, and more fair and consistant! think about it!

[mercedes]

thxx moderator trace to spend that time for me
good idea good cleerly
thxx frend jackmonnow

[judd]

cheat trade for me i'm affraid

below base value with that much credit and income and still over 100 to pass go

[trace567]

I think though HHHfan it would still be a problem. What to one player is a fair price to another is not. Everyone has their own price idea's.
Some games there is plenty of cash around, others very little.

Without the trade baffoe was almost certainly (unless bonus and white hits fast) be out of the game. So for this reason the trade is good for him, it gave him chance to remain in the game to then improve his position with further trading. Quebecmen although in a good postion was not a clear winner. IF baffoe went out this would then release the green and red he was holding. Mercedes having 4k plus cash needing those two properties. So the thing is, yes the trade is 200 under base. But I cannot say there is no logic to the trade. Would this trade be any better had it been 1600? Not really when we are talking about 2 pink. In trade respects owning 2 pink is no more benfical than having 1 when you need to trade.
Having said that it is NOT what I would call a good sound trade.

[mercedes]

yes yes judd m8
when we play 2 X 2 widh frend cat trade shold be base prise
someplayer told me trade price shold not be less than base prise in 2p
but i not reed that in link moderator trace send me last 2 month to leran trades in 4 5
moderator trace explain cleery watt occure in her post
thxx judd m8

[HHHfan]

i was thinking that very thing. i was thinking of when u even trade at base price, and the answer i got was 2x2. TEAMS! basically, ur saying, that if u have little enough money, u are allowed to team? really? i was also thinking of a 2 dark blue for 7 or 800 that was ruled a cheat trade. seems contradicting. then there was the time a 4th black got traded for 600, ruled ok! u really should take the variables out, and set a standard for cheat trading!

eh, this is why ill stick to 2p or teams, in which the goal is teams for everyone, not just 2 people!

[theunknownamus]

The problem with base value is that if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. Not everyone can be counted on to trade within reason. Some will trade blatently out of or just on the tip of reason and then have the nerve to defend it. Then, we get wars, hate, and uneeded conflict. I HIGHLY suggest against trading under base, if only to keep peace, and am almost certain I never have. I know it does help a dying player, but to avoid the repercussions, I think it would be better to just lose. Just my two cents.

[mercedes]

good idea jackminnow frend to trade base prise min
plees sugest bonos in 2p give player 250 not 500
bonos 500 in 2p change my plain in 2p game

[theunknownamus]

Thanks mercedes.

On you bonus point: That would require a software change which at the time is currently impossible due to the owner's (Kreso's) absense. But it's always good to hear suggestions nonetheless.