[boss2boss]

Dear mod,

I played 5p casino at 19-dec-2009 at approx 6:00 pm indian time
with

yukko
jumping_popcorn
good_weed
boss2p
luckydice15

the game is at -60 jumping_popcorn was on 100 at the time, and luckydice has got yellow and lbue fully upgraded. jumping popcorn had 2 pinks upgraded and all houses fully built, jumping_popcorn traded his 3dlues to luckydice, where luckydice is not benefited he simply built 2 houses and he was out first. which benefited only jumping_popcorn and put others in jeopardy, which he should have been out.
I had done same trade a day before and it was in 5p casino and reported as cheat by sim(jumping popcorn) and i was ruled as cheated and i have accepted it.

so kindly check this game and let me know the result please

[sim5]

boss first of all u didnt accepted u did a cheat trade in that game
check that first

all games r not same
before i sold 3 blues for 1500 , i got offer from him ,he wanted 3 blues for 1200 which shows he was in good position to get some income from blue set by buying from me
remeber 1 more thing i could have sold the same set to other person also who had more cash than lucky
so what he did was a very good move to improve his position by using his 3200 cash which he had
so he not only got rent from blues but also 1200 credit for just paying 1500
i gave blue to lucky he got nearly more than 2k rent by just upgrading 2 houses on blue before de grading & when he upgraded 2 houses he still had 1k cash in hand at some point in game as he had other income also
although he lost but right at the end when it was so close between u & him
it was a matter of just 1 round
with blue trade he had a better chance of playing this game with yellow & cyan already fully build
so he didnt degrade blue till right at the end which shows he was comfartable with blue upgrades
u just manage to beat him with 1 round so dont compare all trades in same manner
i will wait for mods decision
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[luckydice]

it was a good trade it benefited me with 2k so i get 2k and other get 2k minus so it is good

[boss2boss]

i would some mod to check this cheat trade, which sim is involved.

thanks

[boss2boss]

Look all houses fully built, green, red, pink, yellow, brown, lbue and the recession is on at -60 when lucky bought the dblue for 1500 he had cash of 3k. LUcky were able to built only 2 houses and his cash position is at 0 now, the other sets he own were yellow and lblue. How lucky got benefitted when all houses were fully built, moreover he was there for few laps and he fot first out. My point is it is one side trade which lucky did not get benefitted.

[sim5]

first of all boss dont compare both game
trades r judge by game situation & situations r different in both games
about ur doubt how lucky got benefited by that trade let me explain u

at the time of trade lucky had 3200 & yukko had 3900 so i could have sold my 3 blues to other player yukko also which could have hurt luckys position as he had only yellow & cyan with no credit

before trade i already had fully brown set + 2 upgrades on pink ,although i didnt have much cash but had 1500 of credit(blue set) which means with good income i could have manage to generate cash + dont forget again it was clear i had blue set which was of no use for me so there was a trade oppertunity in the game by yukko or lucky to grab my set to get ready income

lucky send me offer which shows he was intrested in blue set with 3000 cash in hand + fully build cyan & yellow set
he was ready to take risk with blue to improve his income and to make use of his large cash he had
so he got blue set & invested on it to generate cash flow

if i would have done this trade with yukko who had more cash than lucky, lucky would have lost the oppertunity to make use of his 3000 cash in hand as yellow & cyan cant win u game easily with fully upgrades board so one of the reason he send me the trade to avoid me trading with yukko

if i would have been in his place i would have done the same thing

after taking blue for 1500 he upgraded 2 houses means he spend 1400 on houses to generate income of 100
so his total investment was 1500 + 1400=2900
he got nearly more than 2000 income from blue sets as it was a 5p there r more chances of hits
even if we take 2000 as a rent he got from blue ( because u was moaning in game all the time after that trade i showed u how much hits he was getting on blue)
when he was negative he had to de grade his 2 blues for which he got 700 cash back
so it makes 2000 + 700 cash back from blue
dont forget we all paid togather 2000 for blue as a rent to lucky which means lucky manage to get cash out from us to improve his chances
with 1200 as a credit if u will c how his investment made him a profit look at this
-1500-1400=-2900 (he spend)
2000+700+1200=3900(he got back to his reserve)
making a profit of 1000 by using his cash, without trade he wouldnt have got this 1000 extra cash

he took a risk with blue to improve his chances which didnt paid of, but in my opinion he did the right thing as there is nothing wrong to play aggresive for higher rank by taking risk
although he lost but he lost by just 1 round to u & yukko at start nearly -600, when he was out u had just 4 whites with no houses little cash & no credit
so it was any1 game between u,lucky & yukko which shows it was too close with just 1 or 2 hit here & there he could have come 3rd also

at the end in short he got 1000 profit from his investment which shows he did the right thing

now if u want to compare both games in ur game u was out very easily (despite help from skunk3 by buying ur 4 blacks for 600) when all others had fully build sets still remaining
1200 cash u got from selling 1200 credit didnt give u any advantage

last we should not compare trades because situation of every game are different
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[aussie]

your story is full of holes...a lot of ifs and buts and could haves sim.

..i dont see any difference in this trade to what boss did the day before.....except this one was done by you
_________________
why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[sim5]

without knowing the fact u jumping again... i am not surprised
if ur so good in judging the trades even without knowing who owns what... u must be genius
at the end ur not involved in this game so better stay out or if u have any suggestion please give a pvt msg or talk to mods in the lobby
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[aussie]

i may not be "smart" (like you think you are) but i am smart enough to know when trade rules are not consistent
_________________
why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[MATTIE]

sorry , its taking me a while to do this one( been doing some last minute shopping ) and i want to be thorough on this , i will be onto it as soon as i can although i need to remind aussie she is under constant violation of some rules laid out in the forums

[sim5]

if u have any problem aussie with mods decision ur welcome to post ur views directly to head mod
boss told u to post today in lobby which in my opinion is a wrong way as we have mods to deal with such situation
so better dont jump if some is telling u delebrately to post
just remember ur no way allowed to give ur own decision if ur not involved in that particular game that to without knowing the facts as this can influence mods to make a wrong decision
at the end head mods decision will be final if required whether its wrong or right all have to obey that
i hope u clearly understand now
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[MATTIE]

i do not see how can comparisons arise from this game and the previous one in which boss was penalized , it is totally different scenario here.

1. the trade was not done to bail out someone who is gonna lose in the next round like the previous game , it was done and it was mutually beneficial.

2. the trade was done well into ec , i think sims took the bigger risk by letting go of 1200 credit and having another set to pay to on board.

3. it was a good move from luckydice , it is one of the moves which pays rich dividends in one game and makes u lose in another. that is just how the game works . ( take the case of yukko , he had much lesser income than u and he came ahead of you , what do you say to that ? )

arguing about this trade is an absolute no- brainer. A trade which is good in one game can be an outright cheat in another , there is no standard here , it is not judged on face value too. it is judged on how beneficial it was to both of em.

i pass this trade as a good one , and if you have any further questions regarding the ruling please pm me or if you are not happy with the decision please pm bill

[boss2boss]

mattie, i have nothing to say, simply lol...............

well judgement, thanks........keep it up good work.

[Yukko]

You said: "lucky send me offer which shows he was interested in blue set with 3000 cash in hand + fully build cyan & yellow set."

I don't think that lucky send the offer.
You was offered me first the blue set since I have more cash compare to lucky.
After i rejected, few seconds later lucky bought it with same price you offered to me.

Frankly speaking, you said Lucky got benefited and his income are nearly 2000.
Please consider also how much Lucky got to pay to you because he landed to your pink set that you upgrade using cash that you earned by sell the blue to him. He might no need to pay by landed this pink if you not upgraded it. If he was not buy the blue sets you won't have cash to upgrade your pink and your blue. I'm very sure that you will out first since you have very low cash that time, EC and all others set are fully upgraded.

But i don't want to consider that as a cheat, since no one force lucky to buy.
Like you said Lucky take the risk to buy it even though his position quite convenient that time and he might finish 2nd or 3rd at least.

All i can said is you're very smart player.

[trace567]

jumping_popcorn first sent an offer to you yukko to buy blue, but after that lucky_dice sent an offer to buy blue (this was for 1k), Lucky then sent another offer 1200 for d blue.Jumping_popcorn then sent the offer of 1500 for d blue which lucky took.

I did also look over this game before matt posted.

To atempt to clear any confussion here, I personally view it as a netural trade. Neither good nor bad. But not against the rules.

Jumping was at risk as he was low on cash and it was now ec. He did however have pink on 2 upgrades and brown upgraded to level 4 with credit: 1500. Given one or 2 good rounds with enough hits on pink he may of been ok. Without those hits then he was in trouble.

The trade was 3 blue for 1500. Blue having 1200 of credit. This was like a credit/cash exchange if you like. Paying 300 extra to obtain a set. With only yellow and cyan lucky was very low on credit but had 3k cash funds. He made the choice to go for property and income by upgrades, to try to improve himself against a highly loaded board.

The trade cost him this:
1500
-1200 for the credit value = 300

2 upgrades 700 each 1400
downgrade value of these - 700

300+700 = 1000 (plus any cost of using credit)

this meaning he needed 10 hits off d blue at 100 in order to make the cash back. Anything over 10 hits was profit. But each hit reducing others cash by 100 also.

This is why I feel it was basically a netural trade, and basically a matter of personal preference whether to go this way or stay with the cash alone. He chose this option.

I personally wouldn't have. But just because I wouldn't, doesn't make it an illegal trade. It unfortunately didn't work out for him, but the logic was there.

This trade also although still involving d blue, and a similar value can NOT be compared to a previous game. The board was differently built, ec at a different point etc. No 2 games will ever be the same. Cash funds, player postions within the game, whats on the board and built will never be identical. For this reason I ask people to please not try and compare one trade to another, regardless of the fact it may involve the same set for similar value. The knock on effect of any trade, will be different every game.


Just to add. I know there has been some disagreement regarding the outcome of this trade and the previous casino game reported.
matt has showed all the thread on how to deal with any dispute.
I would just like to say again....all players have the right to request a second opinion ALWAYS. But in order for you to obtain this please be respectful and simply post "I do not agree with the ruling, please can this be re-assessed please" or similar. That's it! All you have to do. No need for any contention or bad remarks. Just simply say you would like a re-assesement. Even if a moderator was involved or present in the game, you still as a player have the right to request another viewing. I will always be avalible if Bill2k06 is not to give another opinion if required.

Thanks