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Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:09 am
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MrCrabbs
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Thanks. Trouble is I am more interested to know what the whole of the top, say, 20 are doing, rather than any one person, and checking in that way is a bit of an effort.

Is there an easier way or am I asking something impossible of Bill?
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Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:40 pm
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trace567
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User names in top 10 last games

2008 Dec - 2 players last game played
2009 Jan - 2 players last game played
2009 Feb - 2 players last game played
2009 Mar - 4 players last game played

I'm not going to put user names, but this will give a guide for how frequently players in the top 10 play on those accounts.

I'm not going to go as far as top 20, as just doing the top 10 took a while.
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Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:58 pm
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trace567
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I understand players in top 10 maybe not wanting to use an account once its got to the top 10. But as a long term player I would like to see more movement in the top 10. That does not mean players in top 10 getting pushed out, it would just be nice to see more movement in positions, and that can only be achieved by players playing those accounts. Or lower players getting high enough to knock players off the top 10. Week to week there can often be little change to no change.

In fact I have a feeling there has been little change to the top 10 in a year of GM.

There is another worrying point to the top 10 when you look at how many games they played getting there.
It is surprisingly low. Exclamation

So I'm either a terrible player or names have been changed, or they got there through winning tournaments.

Oh just to add, I don't mean every player in top 10, just generally speaking the number of games is low compared to what I would of expected.
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Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:50 pm
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MrCrabbs
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I agree. But I think that maybe the problem with the top 10 is the result of one "goverment initiative", ie: tournaments with huge prizes, and that the solution is scrapping that initiative, ie: scrapping tournaments, rather than bringing in a new initiative, of automatically slashing points.

If there is to be any reform of the points, we could cut every player on GM's points back to 1000, but only if tournaments are scrapped. In that way the new points order will at least reflect Kreso's system. And having taken the drastic move of zeroing all accounts, mods would have to be mad to reintroduce tournaments, which should mean the end of tournaments for good. And think how easy it would be to get a game.

HOWEVER, I pity the new player who joins just after the points are all zero'ed! So, in my view, scrap the tournaments, and don't touch the points. Over time, inflation will let us catch the top 10, and they will have to play or lose their places.
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Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:13 pm
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trace567
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Points I don't believe could EVER be zero'ed unless a major major alteration happened. As in the game being majorly altered, or completely new location etc.

Too many players would be lost if they had to start their points over again.
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Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:15 am
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DavidNobre
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Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 1020

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i have never got any point with my higher acc DavidNobre in tourneys , and if u check my rating u will see its problem one of the top10 acc when any player has ever played. Cant say the same about David2p or Nobleman. THese are my tourneys acc and both of they got lots of points from it
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Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:22 am
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MrCrabbs
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trace567 wrote:
Points I don't believe could EVER be zero'ed unless a major major alteration happened. As in the game being majorly altered, or completely new location etc.

Too many players would be lost if they had to start their points over again.


I totally agree. But to say that the top accounts in the game should suffer this fate seems very unfair.

The trouble here is that Bill, Trace and CYN have suggested using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. And none of them seem interested in asking how it came to be that the top 10 accounts are hardly used, or that they are almost uncatchable.

I have suggested that it is as a result of distortions caused by tournament points, something none of these three players has even passed comment on. Cutting the points of the top ten is treating the symptoms, not the disease. We need to restore the points system to its original, fair and accurate method.

DavidNobre wrote:
i have never got any point with my higher acc DavidNobre in tourneys , and if u check my rating u will see its problem one of the top10 acc when any player has ever played. Cant say the same about David2p or Nobleman. THese are my tourneys acc and both of they got lots of points from it


I think that the tripling in the value of your top account, DavidNobre, from over 100,000 to over 300,000 in the last year can only be explained by you taking on and beating players who won tournaments, and getting their points. I do not see how else this could have happened.
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Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:10 am
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muffinhead
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 1215

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Just to note that this topic has come up before and was resolved when everyone realised that the points continue to increase as every new account adds 1000 points to the game. Therefore players will eventually pass the top after they have left the game for so long. eg boogaboo was on top for months and untill he left. Now he isnt even in the top 10.
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Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:58 am
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trish97206
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 255
Location: Austin, tx

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sometimes its hard getting games, and when your account gets high enough, even my meager 85k, i don't want to play it unless someone around that vicinity of points plays too, which is rare, since i only play 2p.

i would hate for my points to go down because i can't find a game.. i vote nay on the points reduction one.

if we were going to force players to play on their top accounts, why not force them to only have one account? ... its the same thing
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Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:58 pm
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bezma2
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Why you all just dont play the game and leave others players points alone . They earn them fairly in game and they can do with them what-ever they want . Play with their biggest acc or not to play with them , is their choose , not ours .
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Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:07 am
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MrCrabbs
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That's what I want - to be able to play by finding games. But it is very difficult when players "steal" points through tournaments, and then leave them in accounts that they never play.

Kreso designed a game where good players can increase their points over time. That is no longer the case - players just bounce around, up and down, making no progress, and finding it difficult to get games with players of similar points.

I have said that I think this is a result of tournaments, and shown why - others should offer their views of the causes for this. Because I agree Bez that it is unfair that players' points should be taken, and I agree with Trish's point that sometimes accounts are not used because it is too difficult to find a game.

But there is a real problem here - locked-up points causing no progress, and fewer games, for some of the best players on GM. We need to get to the bottom of it. If mods will show willing, we can change GM so that this problem gets less and less severe over time and eventually goes away, and we can do that without cutting players' points.

How? Abolish tournaments, or introduce prizes for everyone who gets to the semifinals and beyond, while cutting the crazy jackpots for 1st, 2nd and 3rd prize. And, if a player enters the tournament with a 100,000 point account, make them pay more than someone who enters with 10k. Not very complicated, but a solution that benefits GM and 99.5% of players.
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Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:55 pm
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bezma2
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MrCrabbs , I know that its hard to find the game . But , David did .
Once Thetime was on top of the list and he played not only the tournaments , but all others 2-5 pl games . Than come David and he played 2-5pl games , most of them 2pl games , and a lot of them , and with Thetime and Popov and many others who he challenged . He beat the first ten players many times ,and all others and get on top of the list . In that time , prizes of tournaments was about 25-30k maximum . I wont say that David get many points in tournaments but , most of his points are from 2pl games with other big players , include Thetime . In last half year the prizes of tournaments are min 50k and agbout 75k the last one . Now you see how sim5 get second place on the list . To not repeat my-self , the only way to solve problem is to reduce tour points so the other player , who wont to get on top of the list , must play with top players , chalenge them , and beat them to get on top . David did it , now its some other turn ( if someone wont the top ) . I am not interested . I love the game and i play for fun , not for prestige . For my opinion , reducing someone points is krime against players in our community and cant be done , and increse tournament prizes is bad for this game . Someone think that its the only way to get on top but they are wrong . People , its hard work to get on top . Thetime was there , David is now . Play and go on top . They did , didn't they .
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:13 pm
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MrCrabbs
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I do agree Bez but so far mods have not wanted to discuss the effects of the large tournament prizes on the game. If they are not able to have that discussion, there is reason for them to scrap tournaments.

Given the considerable time I put into detailing the negative effects of the current tournament prizes, and the frankly uninterested response of the mods, I am not optimistic that this is a problem they intend to solve any time soon. I think it is likely that they will continue with the tournaments in an unreformed fashion, or implement ill-thought-out reforms, causing the problems to compound.

Mods know very well that the points are having less and less meaning, and I think they are able to understand the detailed analyses I have given of how tournaments are the root cause of this. It is therefore unclear what motivates them to continue with the tournaments in their current form.

If this goes on for long enough we will be in a position where everyone's points need resetting because the points system has become so deformed. The current crop of mods will rightly feel ashamed for presiding over the slow-motion car crash, unless they rethink their positions.
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Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:44 pm
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slashgandr
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Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 56
Location: Brasil

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I think another ranking system should be created ranking the accounts that gets more points in the week/month.

Other possibility is the accounts enter in some kind of hall of fame after get 100k.

What do you think?
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:20 am
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theunknownamus
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Good idea, slash; although, this may require a currently unachievable software update.

bezma2 wrote:
To not repeat my-self , the only way to solve problem is to reduce tour points so the other player , who wont to get on top of the list , must play with top players , chalenge them , and beat them to get on top.


Indeed, but some high level players refuse to play others after reaching their goal. However, this is perfectly acceptable as playing is a choice, not an obligation. There are also many ways to achieve the top 10 like the various game concepts now developed (Casino, 2 player challenges, 2v2 team games, etc) and of course reasonable touraments (30-35k max).
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