[aussie]

i just finished a 5-p with gentlemen, lion11, palabra, and welstrum..i was retupmoc

with 75 still at start (with the possiblilty of goodness knows how many bonuses ) welstrum traded to palabra 3rd pink for $1100 (palabra has already obtained orange)

boss and i both agreed it was a cheat trade and from there on both the moderators tried to justify the trade

anyone who has played this game knows that pink is the easiest set to upgrade and is a game winner

their argument was that it benefitted both players however my opinion is there was too much cash still available therefore making it a cheat trade..i would never trade 3rd pink for $1100 with 75 still at start and especially in a 5p

palabra paid around 1200 for the first 2 yet got 3rd for 1100 welstrum....not on

please check it out
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why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[Magflag12]

I would like to fully explain the situation before someone digs into this. Please don't think this is me trying to belittle the seriousness of this accusation (I firmly believe that this should be reviewed by ALL mods, except palabra and I, and seriously be discussed between all of them).

Firstly, IN NO WAY, did palabra OR I attempt to collide or team up in any way. If any mistake was made, it was just poor judgement in my trade (which ended with me getting 4th and -6000 points and palabra getting 3rd).

The situation was this. I had 2 whites and 2 light blues and the start was at +75. I had about 700 cash(I think) and had no way of getting the other light blue or another white with a shot at getting a substantial shot at a decent place. So, in a more panicked decision, I sold the last pink for 1100 to palabra which left him with -50 (with a 300 credit). I had A LOT of intentions for doing that were not just limited to me getting cash and the monopoly. I was giving myself options, option to sell/trade light blue or sell/trade my whites to give myself a shot, or buy the light blue and upgrade the monopoly. At the time all the blacks were owned(forget his name), yellows were fully upgraded(helen) and oranges were fully upgraded (palabra)

My rationalization for selling the pink for that much was that he would not get an opportunity to upgrade 2 times (which would lead to substantial advantage) and if he did it would be too late for it to recover him. I did not keep in mind that he could just sell his orange upgrades to upgrade it twice(neither did he before it was too late to save him). If I made any mistake it was that I did not consider that possibility, which is just a strategic error that does not deserve punishment (other than the -6000 that I LOST FROM GETTING 4th). I would like to also mention that after the trade I was half correct. He was not able to get two upgrades on the pink until the start was at +5 and at that time he was -150 AND HE HAD TO DEGRADE HIS ORANGES TWICE to do so after he realized he could lol.

THE ONLY REASON boss got 5th instead of 4th (which was what I got) was because he made the dumb decision of buying the last red at -100 and upgrading it 3 times so he was at -700 (with 1400 credit). If he had not bought the last red (or my last light blue for that matter) he would have easily out lasted me and gotten 4th. Which, because had so many more points than they did, would have gotten him +points for FOURTH.

Almost immediately after the trade Helen and boss accused me and palabra of a cheat trade. The insisted it was, and we argued back and forth for awhile. I ended up getting very distraught as I am a dedicated clean and fair player to this game and was very hurt that I was accused of such a thing. I lost focus COMPLETELY from the game, so all my plans and intentions for upping my chances in the game were completely lost in the confusion. I did not trade or buy or auction or anything because I was too wrapped up in my attempts to convince them I am an honorable player. I will admit I should have focused so I could possibly pull a second or third or maybe even 1st if lucky enough and then resolved it with helen later. I did not, and i suffered 6000 points for it.

I am deeply appauled by the rudeness of helen in this situation(please take this into consideration). First of all, if she has something against me fine, but she has in a way risked my reputation as a clean player for something as petty as this. What angers me most is that SHE GOT SECOND PLACE which was 3500 points for her and she still posted this complaint. She guranteed that it gave palabra the game, YET HE DID NOT NOR GET 2ND. The only reason he even got points was because I got out before him and gave an unproportional amount of points to the pot. This accusation is a serious matter, in several ways. 1: It is about a mod, which all accusations against mods should be taken into extreme consideration. 2: It shows the community what to call cheats on.

I would like to show you all examples of legitimate cheating accusations in the past (even by helen herself).

[aussie]

[boss2boss]

[Magflag12]

Helen,

I do believe that mods should be held VERY accountable, but it is rude to accuse a player of cheating who is clearly not cheating. I find it likely that you are reporting this because of the heat of the situation and because you had back up support. The game was going clearly in you and boss' favor until this trade helped out me and palabra and lessened your shots of getting a substantial monopoly. Also Helen, it seems you have an odd view of what a 'cheat' trade view is. My view is that a cheat trade is one who only advantages one player AND happens because the two players are TEAMING.

3rd pink for 1100 at a rapidly declining game (in regards to the start value), and put that player at -50 out of 300 credit (which caused him risk of hitting monopoly peices and getting him out quicker) is hardly cheating. It seems that because this is very subjective case that it is unlikely that we could call it cheating by means of substantial evidence. I am being honest when I said that my situation was grim in my eyes at the time. I had little cash to negogiate with and little time to get more cash, I honestly believed that palabra was likely to decline in cash (cash in which was to go to me) rather than increase in cash in the short time frame I felt I needed to make my trades. As for the 1100 not covering the amount I needed to buy light blues, I was planning on attempting to suck money out of the player that own all the blacks to buy my whites so I could get substantial cash and POTENTIALLY get the light blues or just try to survive as long as I could. I forgot to do that in the midst of the crazyness.

"and the trade did ruin the game as we spent much time arguing about it and didnt focus on game" This quote from helen shows even more evidence that the game was not ruined by the trade itself, but from the reaction to the trade. If it ruined her game too (because it caused her to not focus) than that is just as much her own fault as it is my fault it ruined my game in terms of focus.

Boss2Boss,

"absolutely with intention". If you say it like that, which is unfairly out of context, it can swing the popular belief in your favor. But IN CONTEXT, the trade was a risk-taking strategy on both sides of the trade that could have ended in success or failure. It ended with Welstrum getting 4th (failure) and palabra getting 3rd (failure). Moreover, when you say it out of context it sounds correct Boss, but when IN CONTEXT to the situation, you will see that the last phrase "absolutely with intention" indicates that this was clear evidence that we were TEAMING. First of all two mods teaming would be ridiculously stupid (especially with players such as helen and boss) because we are expected to behave, secondly it would be illogical because why would a 33k account give a 9k account a trade that risked actually failing and put the 33k at guranteed last, if it were cheating there would have been no risk at all for failure on the 9ks account part, and thirdly you are suggesting that Magflag and Palabra were planning to team in the game against Helen and Boss and some other guy, so that palabra would get first and magflag would get last? IF the third one was the case then why would magflag get last and palabra get first (considering the huge point gap), the only reason would be to help get palabras points way up. If that were the case then why wouldnt palabra and welstrum just get in a 2p and play so that palabra would win every time?
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.

[aussie]

[ElvisHasEntered]

[aussie]

palabra was not as risk , he had fully upgraded orange set and the only other set fully up was my yellow
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why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[Magflag12]

What rule have I 'misinterrupted' here Helen(assuming you mean misinterpreted)? Please tell my what I am missunderstanding in regards to the rules.

As for the crappy trades you refer to, are you saying that it was crappy and that is why I deserved to be titled a 'CHEATER' or do you mean crappy as in it was blatant cheating.

Also, you have failed to give your definition of a cheat trade. If you know the rules so well helen, then why do you not enlighten us? If your suggesting Palabra and I were colliding, then your going to have hard time proving that with this evidence, because I assure you I would never team with palabra anyhow.

As for you elvis, there is a difference between being disrespectful and calling someone out for innappropriate behavior. I am saying that this is rude for her to make such a bold claim off of little evidence, whereas you were saying Bill made bogus and terrible decisions. More importantly the conflict resolution will either end at the other mods' decisions or it will go on to include resolving the conflict of the spree of unnessary accusations that seem to have been going about.
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.

[Bill2k06]

ok, i have loked over this trade, and the chat conversation trying to find if it was a cheat trade.
BUT....

As magflag explains, the money gained from the trade, benfitted both players to earn them better position, (which infact they both ended up lessenin their situation in the game)

i cannot justify this as a cheat for the simple 2 reasons:-

1)it was the benefit of both players involved
2) Because game was still in +EC the property was sold for +200 of market value and therefore was ''cheap' but NOT a cheat as minimum value was 900.

whether this is moderators trading, or regular player i would NOT class this as a cheat trade.
Helen i understand where you are coming from but i just cannot justify this as a cheat sorry.

if any other moderators would like to look over this again then they are welcome.

thanks all.

Gaz
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[aussie]

well bill next time we play you sell me 3rd pink for 1100 with 75 at start or better still i will sell to other player and look for your reaction, i am certain you will be po


i strongly disagree with your decision, but i realise all magflags tears got to you
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why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[aussie]

also i know you took him into mod box and he was given a chance to cry on your shoulder but me i didnt have that offer
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why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[Bill2k06]

helen, this is NOT a ''cheat'' trade , just a ''cheap'' trade , and yes i would be annoyed but in you heart you know this is not a cheat,

i am not sticking up for mods nor trying to discredit your claim.
you know me probably one of the best here of anyone and you know i act without bias, but by your arguing with me , now you are trying to discredit me in this position
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[Magflag12]

I didn't mean to make it sound whiney, Helen. I just felt it important to point out the inaccuracy of accusations these days. Especially this one.
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If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.

[Bill2k06]

mag please come on lobby i want to talk t you
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