Galactic Magnate logo  
   
 
Forums Home Register FAQ Website  
 
 

Forums home Suggestions This game is not meant for intelligent people!!!
Display posts from previous:   
      All times are GMT  
Post new topic  Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Do you think its a good idea to move bonus from the 7th square to the 2nd square(Courtesy: Fingerbang)
Yes
16%
 16%  [ 7 ]
No
41%
 41%  [ 18 ]
It really wouldnt make a difference
41%
 41%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 43
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:36 am
Author Message
hrs111111
Planetoid


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Location: The mines of Moria

Post subject: This game is not meant for intelligent people!!! Reply with quote

This game is not meant for intelligent people,the element of luck is too much sometimes

Here are some things that i'd love to see implemented in the next update,i wont say why because i believe many of you can see the reason being obvious.

1.Either stop salary going below -300/-400 after EC,
OR
Remove jail,and doubles after EC

2.After someone buys two squares of a color,make sure that the die roll is in such a way that he doesn't land on the third of the property too fast. Now even if this point is not implemented(because this deals with how LUCKY a player is),
please make sure that a person DOES land on the third of a color,if a LOOONG time has passed after he had bought the first two.(because this deals with how UNLUCKY a player is)

3.Make sure that people do not land on upgraded reds/purp/green/yellow twice,one just after the other(in a 2p, landing on two of you opponent's greens,one just after the other brings a net money change of 2000 b/w u and ur opponent)

4.Im not sure,but i believe random no generators are used to generate random no's between 1 and 6,on two dices separately
rather than using a single random number generator to get a number between 2 and 12

If random numbers with equal probability b/w 1 and 6 are generated on both dices seperately,
then the maximum probability will be for 7,and minimum will be for 2 and 12
The decreasing order of probability will be

7 (6/36)
8,6 (5/36)
9,5 (4/36)
10,4 (3/36)
11,3 (2/36)
12,2 (1/36)

and the probability of getting a doubles is also (6/36)

You have 6 times more chance of getting a 7 than getting a 2 or 12.

Now you can say that dice rolling in real life works this way...but that dice rolling is all about luck,different numbers have different probability.

5.I think that points 2.,3.,and 4. can be solved by using an intelligent dice rolling script than two random number generators giving values b/w 1 and 6 ea which is the root of all evil

6.Something should be done about bonus OR goto bonus fortunes


Last edited by hrs111111 on Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:22 am; edited 24 times in total
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:43 am
Author Message
Fort
Planet


Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1603

Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what u r saying. EC after 500-600 makes the game too dependent on rolls. The change is in the pipeline as and when kreso gets time he will do it.

EC will start at around -200 and each player pass will drop it by 5. This will probably make the game end by max 500-700 in EC.

I disagree with point 2 and 3 of yours. Point 4 and 5 i didnt get your concept.


Last edited by Fort on Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:17 am
Author Message
greep
Planetoid


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 45

Post subject: Reply with quote

well I play 5p mainly so that wouldn't help much.. but I definately agree it's too much luck for me, I'm done for now. When my rank varies regularly from 7k to 18k somethings "odd" (and yes that's even taking into account the % rank not ELO rank.)

Things I think might help would be:

Bonus dumped by 2/3

My fortune card idea

Elo system rather than percent rank. Sure Elo and % have the same type of ranking, but there's a big difference. With %s there's an extreme variation in score. E.g. if, say, a top ranker could play even the lowest rung players (which he cannot, this is just for explaining), he can go from top to BELOW the other player in as little as TWO 5p games! or 4 2p games!

In an elo system, like chess rankings, this would be about 10 and 20 respectively, and makes much more sense.

To the OP:

1 Yeah

2 Meh

3 What are you saying?

4 I think this is already the case. Take a look at buggaboo's thread on probability of landing on something. You'll find, e.g, that greens are landed on much more than purples because of getting out of jail makes for rolles of only 3/4 for purple. also bonus is higher becuase it's 7 from start.
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:56 am
Author Message
muffinhead
Planet


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 1215

Post subject: Reply with quote

1) u cant stop ec from decreasing otherwise the game would take to long unfrotunatly.
I like to get ridd of jail but people r to religous so it wont happen
I like to stop doubles let see what we can do about it
_________________
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:57 am
Author Message
hrs111111
Planetoid


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Location: The mines of Moria

Post subject: Reply with quote

exactly greep.........i just did a lil bit of calculation myself
from start ,you have maximum probability of landing on bonus which is 0.17
Again the probability of landing on any one green,after getting out of jail is .45 which is very high
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:25 am
Author Message
muffinhead
Planet


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 1215

Post subject: Reply with quote

Since i have answered ur first question ill just say that points 2&3 r silly,

4&5 dont make sense as fort said and 6, bonus has had enough adjustment, leave it as it is.

I would prefere to have a game based on startegy but when everything is, it takes out the hope side and the passion if u know whati mean.

The one thing i agree about is making it so u dont get another turn for rolling a double, espically 5,5 or 6,6 as it can ruin the game in many ways.
_________________
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:46 pm
Author Message
aussie
Ex Moderator


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 1457
Location: Australia

Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree ...a 2yo could play this game and win.........the element of luck is outrageous...........

getting rid of jail in recess would be a positive move to decreasing the luck factor ....

and starting recess at -200 is yet another way............


.......as for the rolls.... i believe the rolls arent random and have been saying so for some months now but i have been told to stop complaining and change my strategy....lol


but take heart......what happens to you mate happens to many many other players too
_________________
why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out
      Back To Top  

Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:22 pm
Author Message
sanctified
Asteroid


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 14

Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2cents on changing the dice in order to affect the probability of landing on certain properties, green for example.. I believe that does come down to intelligence and not luck, because if we know that there's a higher probability of certain properties being landed on, we should be incorporating this into our strategies.
      Back To Top  

Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:10 pm
Author Message
hrs111111
Planetoid


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Location: The mines of Moria

Post subject: Reply with quote

sanctified....i agree that u can use probability to play,i tried that many times

but then probability is never reality until you have a very large number of test cases.....

here the number of test cases are too less and hence reality can be extremely different from probability sometimes


say in a 2p game.....after a player buys greens/reds/purps/yellow and upgrades them,the opponent may land a maximum of say 10 times on them

now 10 times is very very small.....you can put that under probability when you get atleast 200 times.

This is when luck comes into play.So what i wanted to say is that,if we can have an intelligent dice roll script that obeys these probabilities to some extend,the element of luck can be minimized.


Last edited by hrs111111 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
      Back To Top  

Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:25 pm
Author Message
Fort
Planet


Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 1603

Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with sanctified there. The luck factor of that degree is required to keep the game dynamic. Else why do we even need a game, better run a simulator and watch the results.

What i have seen is over the course of 400-600 rolls, the game generally evens out luck factor. If you have been extremely lucky in 1st half of game, other guy will take over later and vice versa.
      Back To Top  

Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:48 pm
Author Message
aussie
Ex Moderator


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 1457
Location: Australia

Post subject: Reply with quote

for me the luck does NOT even out......i do not have luck in any games i play....and you guys can quote your list of prpbabilites all night long....... it will not change my mind.........the game rolls are screwed and does not give us all a fair go.........the game favours whites and blacks ........and you can be a dumb as dog sh*t and still win this game with luck
_________________
why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out
      Back To Top  

Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:13 am
Author Message
fingerbun
Planet


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 769
Location: Sydney

Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here goes… I could write a book about this shit, I will keep it as brief as possible…


1“Either stop salary going below -300/-400 after EC”

What if two players have an income of higher then $400 per revolution? The game would never end.

“Remove jail, and doubles after EC”

Yes, I like this idea. It should take a small element of luck out of the game.

2.“After someone buys two squares of a colour, make sure that the die roll is in such a way that he doesn't land on the third of the property too fast”

I usually have the opposite problem. After I buy two colours, I can’t hit the last one until it’s too late. I also don’t think you need to “fix” the dice. Just not have the option to buy the last colour until you pass it a certain amount of times.

However, now you will have people complaining about never being able to purchase the last colour. For example: If a player does say 12 revolutions and then gets the option to buy the last colour, what happens if that player takes another 13 or 14 revolutions to land on the last square.

I think it’s your opponent’s job to make you pay the maximum price for each set. If you’re able to hit all 3 colours in quick time frame and your opponent has no money to bid, then that is their fault! So in conclusion I think this idea is too complex and will just cause further issues.

3.“Make sure that people do not land on upgraded reds/purp/green/yellow twice, one just after the other”

Again, I don’t think it is necessary to ‘fix’ the dice. Just adding a cap on payments on each property per revolution is easier. But again, what happens when people start hitting greens every time they go past them? Are you then going to implement a rule stating you should only be able to hit a set every 3 or 4 revolutions?

A big skill of the game is putting a value on each set in the current circumstances. If you let your opponent buy green, that is the risk that you take. This is why green is so valuable, when a player does hit it twice, it creates a $2,000 swing. If this concerns you, don’t let your opponent buy green! I think this rule is needlessly complicated and will make the game very hard to learn for new players.

4.“Rather than using a single random number generator to get a number between 2 and 12”

I don’t exactly understand what you mean by this point. But if I have interpreted correctly, this one I don’t like at all! By having random numbers on two separate dice, it is easier to predict and calculate the probabilities of landing on a particular square. I have written a post regarding this http://www.galacticmag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1353 .

Having a random number chosen between 2 and 12 will mean you have the same chance to roll a 12 then rolling a 7. This would also make the “go squares” pointless if being used to make the best probable chance of missing an upgrade.

5.“Something should be done about bonus OR goto bonus fortunes”

I agree with this one! I am a big bonus hatter! I rarely need it in any game I play. Only my opponent does because they have brought more then they can chew. I have two issues with bonus:

When you get a player down to -1200 or similar, and they are incurring a expense as they go past start. Then you buy an extractor or black for 500, then hit bonus, then they hit it, then they get an option to go to bonus! So they go from -1200 to $300. This happens to me all the time. And I have 3 or 4k so I have no real need for $500. I would prefer for my opponent to stay broke.

The second issue I have is when you are able to commit a player to a couple of sets. Sometimes I am able to get a player to own greens, reds, purples and browns. But they have -$450 when start is at $55. All of sudden we hit bonus 4 or 5 times and they can start upgrading, making money from a level two upgrade on purple they can then start upgrading greens and so on.

I have suggested in the past that we move bonus from the 7th square to the 2nd square. This means if your opponent is broke, you can buy other properties without the worry of cashing them up. And if they want to hit bonus, they have to do a full revolution.

These changes are probably too big in the way they would totally change the game. I still stand by what I said when I first started.

Quote:
There is some luck involved, but the major part of the game is making the correct decision. For most games I have lost, it has been due to me making a wrong move or hitting ‘tilt’ mode and doing something stupid. There is only a small hand full of games I would say I should have won. But that is part of the game and we all accept that.


Since I have written this I have incurred some really bad beats. But for the games I do lose, I would say around 70% of them are due to myself making a mistake. Although it is very small, it can make all the difference.

An aspect I have picked upon is that I can usually pick who is going to win in a very early stage of the game.

If a player is able to land on the first 3 extractors or utilities it provides a huge advantage and is usually very hard to comeback from. When I have had my opponent hit the first 3 extractors and start the bidding, I have usually had to rely on him/her making a mistake to get back into the game. They bid to $1200 and get it for $960, and if you pay $1230 you get it for $1230 and they get $246! Therefore they can bid higher next time for the money they made and the money you lost.

Another thing I have picked up on is it seems whenever you get an option saying “go forward 5?” and you choose no, I end up rolling a 5 anyway! Lol

However, I do think a lot of people who cry about bad luck and make other claims have an ill-directed mind set. I have said this before, that most of us only remember the times we hit extractors or utilities, not the times we miss them, we only remember the times we roll 6+6 then 5+5 then 5+6 in a recession but don’t remember the time we roll a 3 and 4.
_________________
I am the artist formally known as FINGERBANG!
      Back To Top  

Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:49 am
Author Message
greep
Planetoid


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 45

Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, the point of bonus is supposed to be about fluctuation in the market.. but there is already an incredible amount of this! These are:

A)differences in how long it takes to go pass go

B)The second one person gets white/black/upgrades

C)fortunes

D)rate of auctions (changes player's relative money a lot)

Therefore, I think not just reducing but DESTROYING bonus will make the game more interesting.

Also, one thing I think would be VERY interesting is to decrease the "Go pass start" value and treat it like bonus: everyone gains. The main luck in the game seems to be these two points: getting ridiculous start money and that finishing a monopoly ridiculously early. This would change the former.

For the latter, well that's just how the game goes. At least in 3/4/5 it evens out as a person can bluff it up a lot, although when playing against newbies they seem to like throwing away 1st place to tank you for whatever reason.

Also to fingerbang: Disregarding extractors/bonus, all games would end even with a fixed EC of one italian lira. With them, EC of -150. However, -300 IS pretty slow, perhaps -400 would be best. Nobody wants a two hour game.
      Back To Top  

Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:14 am
Author Message
hrs111111
Planetoid


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Location: The mines of Moria

Post subject: Reply with quote

fingerbang wrote:
I have suggested in the past that we move bonus from the 7th square to the 2nd square


Fingerbang!!!!..............i love your ideaaaaaa
      Back To Top  

Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:13 pm
Author Message
hrs111111
Planetoid


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Location: The mines of Moria

Post subject: Reply with quote

Fort wrote:
I agree with sanctified there. The luck factor of that degree is required to keep the game dynamic. Else why do we even need a game, better run a simulator and watch the results.

What i have seen is over the course of 400-600 rolls, the game generally evens out luck factor. If you have been extremely lucky in 1st half of game, other guy will take over later and vice versa.


No Fort,the luck does not even out at all in many games.....
if it would,there wouldn't be any ranting in the forums

Again...for the luck to even out,you would need an intelligent die roll script which is not there.



And for all those who say "remember the times when you had won due to luck also",
my reply would be that I'd rather prefer all games to be normal and based on my intelligence, rather that win some games due to shear luck making my opponent frustrated...,and then loose some games due to shear luck,and get frustrated myself

Ultimately,whenever the flow of a game is reversed due to luck,someone gets frustrated


Even in the new update where fort says salary would decrease by 5 for each pass by start after EC,
the value of salary shouldn't be allowed go beyond -400,after which the game is ruined.

This limit may lengthen the game by two or three minutes only,as there wont be much auctioning left,and any choices to be made if landed upon fortunes will be obvious.
      Back To Top  
Post new topic  Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


      Back To Top  

Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Avalanche style by What Is Real © 2004