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Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:00 pm
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NewMagnate
Moon


Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Posts: 121

Post subject: Rating calculation Reply with quote

now players with lowest rating in the game (for example in the game between 2k, 8k, 9k, 10k player with 2k) receive more points in % if he wins.
May be it will be fair to count points with the lowest base as a standard. In this case will be very easy to understand how the points are counted.
What do you think?
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:10 pm
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trace567
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Sorry, but I just read that twice and still am confused.
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:08 pm
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NewMagnate
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Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Posts: 121

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Sorry for my english, In this example calculate points supposing that all players have the lowest rating (in this example 2k).
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:51 pm
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trace567
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To be honest I have never really believed the current system to be fair anyway. Where the points all come directly from the points of another user it can lead to targeting the player with the highest points, thus the situation came about where players created more and more user names just to be on a similar ranking to others. Some of this would of course be less of an issue because people will only have 3 user accounts each. Also more players means it will in time be easier to get like for like games.
However all the time that the system is based on taking from a player and giving directly to another it can cause the whole targeting thing.

If I am reading it right, what your suggesting is that the lowest point player in the game becomes the base of the win/lose from all other players.
So in a game of 2k p, 4k p, 6k p, 8k p, 10k p
All points winning or loss will be based on if ALL players had 2k to begin with.
Am I right?

This system would certainly ease the problem of targeting higher ranked users in games, but could mean that higher ranked players don't want to waste their time playing if a 2k player is in their game and they have 10k. They will look for people with 50k to play with!

So back to my long standing believe that the point system at present is flawed, I have always thought players should win points and lose points at a set amount but that it be a system based thing rather than the users points.
So if they win a game, the points received come directly from the system not the users. If they lose the points are taken away by the system and those points taken or received are based on the win or loss, not the other players points - unless perhaps they play someone highly skilled they could win a bonus.

Just my 2 cents worth Smile and to be honest points system and points in general are pretty unimportant to me - so no matter how you set it out, I won't argue about it lol.

Geez I have a hyperactive brain.
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:29 pm
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MrCrabbs
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I think that your idea, NewMagnate, is a good one.

Trace, have read what you wrote twice now, and I don't get it! Laughing
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Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:53 pm
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trace567
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MrCrabbs wrote:
I think that your idea, NewMagnate, is a good one.

Trace, have read what you wrote twice now, and I don't get it! Laughing


Nevermind lol
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:07 am
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NewMagnate
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Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Posts: 121

Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really sorry, I have spent 1 hour for understanding how the current counting system works. I could not understand it.

Could you help me and show how the current system counts the points.
Suppose we have 5p. And following start ratings and ranks distribution:

First place Player A - start rating - 20 000
Second Player B - 30 000
3 Player C - 10 000
4 Player D - 40 000
5 player E - 50 000

How the current system will count the final rating of each game.
Thank you.
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:36 am
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NewMagnate
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Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Posts: 121

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If I have understood the rules correctly, the distribution will be:

Player's A gain=10% of start player's B points=+3000
Player's A result= + 3000 (+15%)

Player's B loss=10% of start points=- 3000
Player's B gain=16% of start player's C points=+1600
Player's B result= - 1400 (-4%)

Player's C loss=16% of start points=- 1600
Player's C gain=22% of start player's C points=+8800
Player's C result= +7200 (+72%)

Player's D loss=22% of start points=- 8800
Player's D gain=28% of start player's C points=+14000
Player's D result= +5200 (+13%)

Player's E loss=28% of start points=- 14000
Player's B result= - 14000 (-28%)

There is a question - why second place has a loss, at the same time when third place has a huge gain?
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:40 am
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Falun
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 46

Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't use the old system. It was completely unfair to experienced players who loose far to many points when luck goes against them. It means there is huge restriction in progression and ability to find a fair game.

Initiate a new system that just gives base increase in points to all parties regardless of starting points.
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:52 am
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NewMagnate
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Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Posts: 121

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If we will count by the lowest rating (in this case Player C with 10000 points):

Player's A gain=10% of the lowest rating =+1000
Player's A result= + 1000 (+5%)

Player's B loss=10% of the lowest rating =- 1000
Player's B gain=16% of the lowest rating =+1600
Player's B result= + 600 (+2%)

Player's C loss=16% of the lowest rating =- 1600
Player's C gain=22% of the lowest rating = +2200
Player's C result= 600(+6%)

Player's D loss=22% of the lowest rating =- 2200
Player's D gain=28% of the lowest rating =+2800
Player's D result= +600(+3%)

Player's E loss=28% of the lowest rating =- 2800
Player's E result= - 2800 (-6%)

I don't think that this system will be better because we will not have a difference between 2,3,4 player's points.
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:58 pm
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cat
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Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 4

Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on how you see this, this of using the lowest rank as base is unfair for low level players.

Think of A master level player playing B low level player. If B wins, he gets as many points as he could have got winning someone just slightly above his rank.

And at the same time, it is a big advantage for high level players...you could just play newbies, all the time, increasing your rank by patience and not skill.

The point system used currently is usually considered fair...
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:59 pm
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MrCrabbs
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Here's the current points award system copy pasted from website for ease of reference

1.5. How are scores calculated?

Here is an example:

Let's say there are 3 players in game, named A having 2000 points,B having 3000 points and C having 4000 points. Player B wins the game, C finishes second, A third and last.

Since it is a 3 player game, row 3 from contributing percentages table is significant: 0, 13, 20. Here is the whole contributing percentages table .

C loses 4000 * 13 / 100 = 520 pts. All goes to B A loses 2000 * 20 / 100 = 400 pts. 200 goes to C and B

Points at end:

B : 3000 + 520 + 200 = 3720 C : 4000 - 520 + 200 = 3680 A : 2000 - 400 = 1600

And additional 100 points to each player who played for more than 10 minutes.
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:05 pm
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MrCrabbs
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Rating

When a player account is created, it starts with 1000 points. The players lose or receive points depending on outcome of the rated games they play.

Each player contributes a certain percentage of points, depending on his rank at the game end.

The following table contains contributing percentages:

rank Number of players at game start (plrCnt) 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

2 0 16 3 0 13 20 4 0 11 17 24 5 0 10 16 22 28 For a given number of players and rank,a value from this table will be reffered to as Contr[plrCnt][rank].

A player receives points from other players with lower rank, and gives points to players with higher rank.

Le

tXpoints be points of a player X at game start, and his final rank be Xrank. Points of player X will be reduced by:

loss = Xpoints * Contr[plrCnt][Xrank] / 100 (rounded down)

For each player J who has worst rank than player X (Jrank>Xrank), player X receives:

gain = Jpoints * Contr[plrCnt][Jrank] / (Jrank-1) / 100 (rounded down)

where: Jpoints - points of player J at game start Jrank - rank of player J at game end

In any game, this system is made such that sum of all losses is equal to sum of all gains.

Additionally, a player receives 100 bonus points if he was playing the game for more than 10 minutes.


Last edited by MrCrabbs on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:08 pm
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MrCrabbs
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Sorry the table didn't copy properly in my last post. Link: http://www.galacticmag.com/doc-miscellaneous.php#rating
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Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:17 pm
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NewMagnate
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Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Posts: 121

Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you,
Could you help me with my example (5p game described above)?
Alex
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