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Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:35 am
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IkeCarlini
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Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 18

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cyn, please look at the comments in my last post which i believe justify my actions quite clearly, i would like you to re-consider the action you have taken. if the action stands i would like to know, given my comments, how exactly this is an unfair trade?
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Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:47 am
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nockTurnal
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Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 79
Location: USA

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IkeCarlini wrote:
i cannot believe this action has been taken.


You gave him his 3rd white thus doubling his income. If you had 3 blacks and traded the white for a 4th black then that would benefit you both. But you got nothing out of that trade. trace has always told me that "trades must benefit both players." It doesn't matter what you think you might do later on...which in this case, happened to be nothing.


IkeCarlini wrote:
now, negotiations have not been successful thus far with shiraz and i don't want to get stuck with 'the 4th white' so i swap my cheapo white with yesyes' black. this gives me more opportunity to strike a deal with shiraz.


Past behavior predicts future behavior. I'm not sure why you'd think that after failing to strike a fair deal with shiraz earlier in game that things would change.
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Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:11 am
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IkeCarlini
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Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 18

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nockTurnal wrote:
But you got nothing out of that trade... It doesn't matter what you think you might do later on...which in this case, happened to be nothing.


what i got was a way of protecting my investment and increasing the chances of trading.

you say it does not matter what you think may happen later. really? in my experience businesses try to predict what will happen later on to ensure they are at market before competition and ensure that the business is successful in the future. i can't think of any business that does not base it's actions on what it believes will happen in the next 1/5/10 years. ever heard of the futures market? get a grip.

nockTurnal wrote:
Past behavior predicts future behavior. I'm not sure why you'd think that after failing to strike a fair deal with shiraz earlier in game that things would change.


he made an initial offer which i declined as too much, he then offered a sort of reverse but i did not take it as i did not want shiraz to have the orange set before i had any. he then bought the last brown, i offered orange for brown, he declined and then things went quiet, i assumed the timing was not right for him at that time. it was not like we were worlds apart as can be the case with some players sometimes. i thought as shiraz was after blacks i would be able to trade to get something.

i notice that you never mentioned you getting second green for 560 either. i would have thought you'd have found that strange given everything else you complain about.

just because you can't understand, does not mean there is anything wrong. if you had read what i've written and looked at the context then you might understand. but you seem to have a closed mind and a judgemental one at that.

i don't want to get in an argument with you because it is a waste of my time. please let cyn respond as i have asked without forcing your own simplistic views. you've already had your say.
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Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:19 am
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CYN
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 1407
Location: United States

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I did re-look at the situation as you stated your strategy. When we make our judgements we can only go by what we see and make the best judgement we can. Any player may object and explain their actions in a proper way, which you did and upon re-examination with the information given and validated by the board and trade offers whether accepted or not (nock you can take a chance on getting a trade even if you have been unsucessful with other props) I am reconsidering my decision and reversing ikec's reduction of 25 percent. I am human and do make mistakes or wrong judgements due to not being able to always see the whole picture or misunderstanding. that is why players may objected in proper way and explain and i will always take another look. On the other half of my judgement regarding the other two players, i took another look and my decision stands.
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ITS ALL GOOD
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Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:23 am
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nockTurnal
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Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 79
Location: USA

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IkeCarlini wrote:
get a grip.

but you seem to have a closed mind and a judgemental one at that.

i don't want to get in an argument with you because it is a waste of my time. please let cyn respond as i have asked without forcing your own simplistic views. you've already had your say.


I created this thread. This isn't the same as me jumping into another thread so I can say as I please.

I wasn't arguing with you at all. I was actually trying to help you understand why the trade was one-sided. There was no bitter tone in my comment towards you. You can throw out comments out of thin air like "judgemental" and "simplistic" views all you want.

That is all I'm going to say. I actually like you despite what I've said in the past on the forum. Perhaps that is what's influencing your bitter reaction here. I hope in the future that our player relationship can improve.
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Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:37 am
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nockTurnal
Planetoid


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 79
Location: USA

Post subject: Reply with quote

CYN wrote:
I I am reconsidering my decision and reversing ikec's reduction of 25 percent.


"Trades conducted in 3+ player games must be advantageous to both parties involved in trade." - Kreso (GM Creator/Owner)

"Two players conducted a trade, where the trade is obviously advantageous only for one player." - Kreso (GM Creator/Owner)

Those quotes above are found in the GM rule book.

Also, I remember talking to trace about "intent" in trades. She told me on the boards that it doesn't matter how good your intent is. If the trade only benefits one player and not the other, it is no good. No one ever reversed my points reduction because of me telling what my "intentions" were. I'm puzzled at your rule reversal, CYN. No matter how you look at it, ikec did not benefit here.
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Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:50 am
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CYN
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Location: United States

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He received 1100 which gave him more funds while the fourth white only increased the others income by 20. Everything isnt black and white and all items must be taken into consideration. Never will everyone agree 100 percent on any decision. In Kreso's rules it states both must benefit, this was not a trade of example all props for 100 which is a direct cheat. Sorry you do not agree with my decision on this part. I make my best judgements and will never please everyone no matter what the decision.
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ITS ALL GOOD
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Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:02 pm
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IkeCarlini
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Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 18

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thanks cyn. i note your points and appreciate your situation, effort and time.

nock, i'd hope you can understand what happened here even if you do not agree. i have no ill will toward you and i also hope our relationship improves. but that being said, if i need to defend myself then i will not be backward about coming forward. let's lay this issue to rest, take the positive notes from this thread and move forward.
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