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Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:03 pm
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Apollon
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 28

Post subject: Foul Language in GM Reply with quote

I think there is to many people getting a ban in GM... Exclamation

I dont think it is fair to ban a person cause he/she say a bad word one time or even several times. Try to go to the supermarket or anywhere else and thats just the way people talk - well in Denmark that is... Its normal to say to your friend - oh {f-word} off - its not that bad for a younger person. Anyway its not 5 days with a ban - bad, and specially not without a warning Rolling Eyes

I think its okay to ban a person if he/she is cheating.

But if someone uses to many bad words lets just ignore him/her and they will get tired of it.
If GM ban people using bad words, there will be no GM in the future, cause the future is young people, and they talk like that. People we are writing 2011 Very Happy

Also the mods will have more time doing other stuff than to read peoples chathistory.

Moontrip
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:36 pm
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princeofpersia1992
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 344

Post subject: Reply with quote

No moon u r wrong in this part people using foul language no doubt should be banned or else gm will be like a market place u r talking abt .Just think fr a moment tht the lobby will be like if people using such lang r nt banned.
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:51 pm
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trace567
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Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't ban for simply just one swear word, rather if that swearing is directed at another user. Or if they swear too much on a consistent basis.
Warnings have very limited use, as we can only issue them directly in person on the game interface, or via the forum. Since a large number of users don't come to the forum on a daily basis there is a huge chance they will not see that warning.

I would rather a user be banned 5 days, to show them that this kind of thing will be dealt with, than allow them to get into a situation where that odd swearing remark at another then turns to a tirade of abuse, because they think it is acceptable to do here and then end up banned a very lengthy time.

Since we have no word filter on the game, nor do new users ever know how to mute someone, the only alternative is to ban to prevent the issue escalating.
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:53 pm
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theunknownamus
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Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I'm rarely offended by swearing. However, as Trace stated, if you give people an inch, they'll take a mile. I'd rather see it enforced.
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:54 pm
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HHHfan
Moon


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 338

Post subject: Reply with quote

I happen to agree with moontrip on this one! where i come from people just talk like that, where i work, people just talk like that, my friends, just talk like that, it is just how it is! My guess is people everywhere talk like that! Ive thought for years that banning someone for saying the wrong thing was a bad idea. Most people use these "bad" words as part of their every day vocabulary, most of us dont even think about it! Now, while some people may be offended by this, the fact is SOMEONE IS ALWAYS OFFENDED BY SOMETHING in this day and age for some reason. Me, I'm a hard person to offend, id say nail the cheaters and leave the talkers go! Very Happy
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:32 am
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bezma2
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Post subject: Reply with quote

We had discused about this in past . I agree that people in some countries talk like that what moon and hhhfun said but its a talk not typing . Diference in talk and type is big . When you talk to someone its easy to tell that words but when you type that words it take more time . I wont to say , when your playing or chating , why you just dont shout loud that words in your room and dont type it . That is much easier and non punishable .
This is not a supermarket or street . This is a place where people with all ages , young and old , come to play and enjoy and we try to make it clean from bad words and bad behave . Like trace said , we have no word filter and we must do what we are doing .
Second , we dont punish noone if someone time to time said some words like f*** or idiot but , if he constantly repeat that in all games and in chat , and not only that simple word f*** , we must punish that behave and worn players to not do it again . You realy think its ok when you say to someone >> idiot , retard , stupid , f*** you <<< and words like that ?
We warn peopele about , sometime before and sometime after we ban player and forum is place for that . We cant force player to register on forum but forum is for all . You can read it even your not register .
For finish , I dont see many players on GM using this words so, dont be worry about future of GM . We will survive the new young and old generation becouse we live with them and we are not so harsh like you think .
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:04 pm
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BHappy
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Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 8

Post subject: Reply with quote

The reading of chat logs as a routine measure is not only intrusive, but a breach of western values and civil liberties. I'll go as far as calling it perverse. Its hard not getting the feeling ‘Mods’ are getting some sad kick out of reading players in game chat because this is done even if no complaint has been made. So basically you and your friends chat is being read and if felt appropriate held against you even if no offence was intended or indeed taken by the other players. It seems to me something is altogether wrong in that.

Comments and free speech welcome.
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:38 pm
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Apollon
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Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 28

Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Prince
I dont think any of us are wrong, we are different people with different minds, we dont have to agree about things.
And I think the lobby would be more fun with free speech.
Yesterday a player from Venezuela said to me, he love danish cookies, I told him back that I love Venezuela heroin Laughing This was a joke cause heroin is the only product from Venesuela Im aware about, and I was sure this player was not offended by this. But I was not totally sure, if I would get a ban from the game, if I had written it in the lobby, cause I mentioned heroin... Isent that sad!?

@ Trace
To me a ban is just like ending in prison, and in my country, we have the freedom of speech, thats why (from my point of view) it is a stupid rule and it provoke me.
Your last ban to Wez was one of the reasons I felt like writing this topic. I dont know Wez, but I know he is a new player. He said one bad line and he end up with a ban for 5 days! That is just not fair. Does he even know he is banned or can he just not log on to the game anymore, thinking something is wrong and will forget all about GM, and maybe never come back... Another GM player could be lost... Im sure we all are interested in new GM players - right Shocked
I think it would be much better to learn new players how to mute another player if he/she is offending them. Then all players can be in GM and all can be haaappyyyyyy Razz

@ theunknownamus
We could at least try to give an inch Wink

@HHHfan
100% Totally agree with you

@Bezma
Okay so its not just me who had those thoughts - thats good - lol
To me Bezma ( and im a chatoholic lol ) I write whats on my mind, 100% just like in speech. But in a chat it sometimes goes fast and when english isent my first language, there is not much time for thinking, if the words I use is good enough for the GM mods Wink
Yes Bezma I think its okay to say those words just like I also think its okay to draw stupid drawings and put them in a newspaper. That dosent mean that I would personal draw or say anything like that. But I believe that people have the rights to do that.
I sure hope GM will survive Bezma, its a great game and many nice people arround here. Just some very old fasion rules Shocked

@ Bhappy
hmmm really really hope the mods dont read the chat between friends in a 2p lol
It would be like them putting up their ear, against the neighbours door Confused

That was all from now Cool

Moontrip
_________________
The best way to make your dreams come true,
is to wake up!
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:44 pm
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theunknownamus
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Post subject: Hahaha! Venezuela! Reply with quote

BHappy wrote:
The reading of chat logs as a routine measure is not only intrusive, but a breach of western values and civil liberties. I'll go as far as calling it perverse. Its hard not getting the feeling ‘Mods’ are getting some sad kick out of reading players in game chat because this is done even if no complaint has been made. So basically you and your friends chat is being read and if felt appropriate held against you even if no offense was intended or indeed taken by the other players. It seems to me something is altogether wrong in that.


Now THAT is an interesting concept. Idea

However, I believe it is somewhat implied that anything you say on here, as well as on the internet, can and will be monitored. Although, I think it should state this fact in the GM Contract or it could be viewed as a breach of privacy.
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:00 pm
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princeofpersia1992
Ex Moderator


Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 344

Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And I think the lobby would be more fun with free speech.

ok moon let me give u sm exaple how bad it can be if banning fr foul language is nt done
yeah i will just cm and say u how r u bi**h i just f**k ur family u will feel really really happy abt it and this will make lobby much fun is that ur saying moon(sorry fr giving such example but i needed to explain u smhow)
in that case i m sry i m happy with the condition of lobby is now and the rules in banning foul language lol

on wez ban lol i think trace will give a better answer he said just 2 words as i seen that is c**k su**ER and moon u r saying its ok lolll big lolllllll those 2 words r 100% bad enough fr 5 days ban

Quote:
I sure hope GM will survive Bezma, its a great game and many nice people arround here. Just some very old fasion rules Shocked


bez is nt old fastioned or nt the rules in banning because of lang gm is much better with the rules being implied and no way it should be changed

Quote:
hmmm really really hope the mods dont read the chat between friends in a 2p lol
It would be like them putting up their ear, against the neighbours door Confused


well if u hv soooooo much private talk with ur friend that u dont want anyone to see or whtever why do it on galactic thr r other social sites which u can use fr that and no ones gona see thr wht u r chatting or whtever like fb etc
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:34 pm
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trace567
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Post subject: Reply with quote

It states very clearly in the terms and conditions of the game on downloading and installing that all communication through GM is both stored on our servers and human viewed, along with stating what type of behaviour is not allowed.

If I was a parent, I would not be happy for my teenager to come here if there was no chat restrictions. Whilst players should be 13 upwards, we cannot actively be certain to keep under 13's out.
I know that a vast majority of our users are 18+ but this is just how its turned out, and is by no means a rule. If the game was 18+ then there would be less requirement for chat moderation.

It is vital that chat be monitored by moderators. Sadly in my time as a mod I have once had to remove a person whom we deemed a potential danger to youngsters. Now had chat not of been being checked, well you can figure it out for yourselves what could of happened.

Mods don't sit there reading logs, believe me 24 hours of logs is very long...to read it would take half a day. We simply scan over them for words, phrases etc of which are concerning. We may then go back over and check in greater depth if we see something worrying.
If a user is flagged up for unacceptable chat, we may then review that users chat in greater depth to gage the situation.

If you believe that other games are not run the same way, you are sadly mistaken. Basically they just don't openly tell you that they have the chat checked, they simply place bans without any other users knowledge. Here we have a very open system, which also is a name and shame also as it works as a deterrent.
If you want to speak to a member in complete private without any worry then all I can suggest is you take that chat to messenger service.

As of 1st of March there will be a chat log monitoring system in place for chat log mods. This will mean that other mods will have no need to access chat logs other than to do their set days of duty, unless it is necessary to check more deeply. The only other times chat logs will be accessed will be by trade mods when necessary for complaints, or for any complaint of abuse as posted via forum or reported in lobby.
Myself and Cyndi will run random checks on logs to ensure they are being done. But most of the time each day log will be viewed by 1 mod only.

Tina you would not have been banned or even got into trouble for what you said. Had you however said something to speak of it in greater depth, like where to buy such etc, then yes we would likely need to step in.
I am all for users having a laugh and a good time. You can by all means chat around subjects, in a manner that is not using explicit language.
Banned users receive a message stating their pc is banned on attempt to log in.

It is a shame that when GM was set up a better registering system was not put in place, where by we could of had every user give their full name, and email address. This would of meant we could contact users easier to give warnings. But just like we have no word filter on the game, its something that Kreso did not create at the time and we have what we have, and we just must make the most of it.
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Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:24 am
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BHappy
Asteroid


Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 8

Post subject: Reply with quote

The right to freedom of speech is recognised as a human right under Article 19 of the Declaration of Human Rights and recognised in international human right law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)


A Civil Point of view.

What has happened to social freedoms? Are we entering a dictatorship in which civil liberties are forgotten the moment we log in to play a simple game of interstellar monopoly ? Is Galactic Magnate some mini-despot’s little pretend China ? Is GM their own third world heaven to escape and play at being Colonel Gaddafi for a while? Well even the people of Libya are sick of their sad despot it seems.

Anyway, putting the abuses of civil and social liberties to the side for one moment. What does it say about the mental health of those involved in this? We hear all the time about the work load of the ‘mods’; how they have so much to do. Yet they have enough time to routinely read through all the chat logs. Reading our venting of anger after a hard day, reading of our private discussions passing from one pal to another, and of course any private jokes made. All opened up, logged and acted upon by individuals we neither know nor can fully trust. I have to wonder if this is a deranged act of a self righteous workaholic, or the sad indulgence of someone who has lost sight of themselves.

Devoting some ‘free’ time’ voluntarily to an organisation is a healthy and worthwhile pursuit. Allocating a portion of your time out of normal life where a selected person’s sound judgement would justify the position of moderator for the benefit of all patrons is a worthy undertaking. But when it becomes a full time job to sit in a room and monitor the every movement, every statement, technically and verbally of the people here trying to have a little bit of social ‘free’ time together, I think the magnitude of 5 day, 10 day, 30 day repeated bans starting with minor, (often changeable) offences being logged against each player, to be more about the self substantiation of individual ego rather than for the good of the site or indeed fair judgment.

The situation with regard to individuals’ rights:
It seems that the people in question here believe a moderator’s position is safe from any kind of civil regulation. They happen to be wrong about that. The previous post was written with such authority and conviction that you get the feeling the writer believes everything they say or do is ultimately correct. However it is clear they do not understand their obligation to uphold all patrons Civil Rights within this forum and within GM game. And certainly not to infringe upon them.

Even the police cannot enter 100 peoples homes because they know one of the residents within must surely be a thief. Nor can Apple or any mobile phone provider listen in to telephone calls or read sms messages just because they are made on their devices.
Regarding the statment that people have been already informed that chat is monitored in the GM terms and conditions:
A private organisation may write a set of conditions that patrons must accept in order to join, however those conditions can not be outside or infringe with peoples civil liberties and rights.
This is because they are subject to:
Article 17 of the ‘International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights of the United Nations of 1966’ which protects privacy: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence.

If a private organisation makes a set of terms or conditions that state patrons will be subject to intrusive conditions that are outside that of an individual’s civil rights, then that organisation is in breach of that persons civil liberties and rights, if they are enforced.

Furthermore: Freedom of Speech is a basic right of all individuals whether you are sitting in your home or whether you are sitting in a privately owned café. Or for that matter a forum on the internet. Your right to say what you like is upheld under Article 19 Declaration of Human Rights as previously mentioned and providing no civil laws are broken (like breach of the peace) while doing so, no one and no organisation is able to restrict how or what you say. No matter what is written on a notice or in the terms and conditions by the owner of that organisation. He is legally obligated to observe and uphold the Civil Rights of all patrons. Otherwise that organisation can be held responsible for the restriction of those individual’s civil liberties.
Therefore you are well within your rights to tell every other person in a McDonalds Café that you regard Starbucks Coffee to be superior. Without penalty, repression, dismissal or restrictions to your civil liberties by that McDonalds café.

Having looked into this in some detail, I have been told that the following statements are indeed binding in law and apply to all patrons of GM.

Regarding freedom of speech within this forum.
“Everyone is entitled to freedom of speech, without infringement, control or boundaries, within European Civil Law and the statute of ‘Article 19 of the Declaration of Human Rights’.”

Regarding Freedom of speech within GM Forum, GM Game and regarding the civil infringements under which Chat logs are being invaded (as stated within this thread):
“The treatment and understanding for individuals on this aforementioned medium, IE ‘GM Forum’ and the chat window of the ‘GM Game’, takes place within a group of participating `debating` civilians, and while the boundaries and regulation may be unclear by the moderating group they are still held within the boundaries of Article 17 of the ‘International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights of the United Nations of 1966’ which protects privacy: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."

Any individual can write the same statements in turn for walking into a McDonalds on the high street or when entering any web site held under the jurisdiction of United Nations and it will be legally correct.


In turn and in conclusion:
There are mediums on the internet where blogs and leaks and information are stored these days and where internet civil and social liberties are discussed. They not hard to find. The reading of personal chat, and the storing of IP’s and patrons personal locations has implications and consequences, and thus is true in any form of communication, where people believe their discussion’s are private.
If your employer opens your private messages against your knowledge or will, and gleans unimportant yet private correspondence, he is in breach of European Civil liberties. He can be held accountable and fined very heavily. This stands true of any organisation on the high street or by any public or private internet site.

The right to freedom of speech is recognised as a human right under Article 19 of the Declaration of Human Rights and recognised in international human right law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)

This posting has been logged here on the Galactic Magnate Forum and registered on 4 independent portals of review for means of open traceability.
Dated 24 February 2011 at 11:25 CET LOGXB 2492.4556.4840.2221
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Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:12 pm
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trace567
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Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhappy I suggest you email kreso@galacticmag.com with your concerns.

Because until he tells me that he no longer wishes for the chat to be moderated, and monitored it will be!
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Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:01 pm
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theunknownamus
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Post subject: :O Reply with quote

BHappy, do you happen to be a lawyer? Because that was one of the most in depth and intelligent posts I've ever seen! Very Happy
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Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:08 pm
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princeofpersia1992
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 344

Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe agreed with unknownamus Very HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery Happy


Took me 1/2 hour to read all that lol :p
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