[sim5]

just finishes a 5p with
bottle_of_wine
villageidiot
pencil
glamazon
gentlemen

i traded with judd 2 times
gave him 1 pink to make his pink set for 1000 + 2 blue
gave him 4 whites for 2 green to make green set for myself

some player not happy with these 2 trades which i feel was very good trade for both of us
i personally feel it was a very close & fair game but i want mods to go through this
thanks
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[aussie]

i am not happy with the trades sim and judd did in this gamesim traded to judd pink very very early in the game...we all know pink is quick and easy to upgrade....takes only 2 upgrades to become a good money earner.

sim buys 1 green and then lets judd take the other 2 green

by this time sim had 4 whites 3 black and almost 4k in cash

i had yellow and dblue..i traded 2 dblue from sim for 1 white and 700( sim says i got them cheap...i paid 1500 for the white i had ..so to me i paid 2500 for the 2 dblue..cheap....hardly) with about 70 atstart and pink up

then with recession near or just at beginning of recess judd gives sim 2 green for 4 white

i quit the game as soon as trade was done... as it was imo it was like they were working as a team

why would judd who had pink up to level4 trade green

i mean where is the logic in that

sim immmediately fully up graded green

i told them it was dirty play and left

i know the mods will say its cool it was fair...say what you will it was filthy play ...and it was of no benefit for judd to give sim green...had i staying in game judd would have died earlier as i was in a better position than him

anyway i will be just as dirty in games from now on..use filth to play filth
_________________
why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[sim5]

not a true story
first i gave judd pink for 1000 + 2 dark blue, judd had only 1400 cash & 900 credit , which means i took his 800 credit + 1000 cash
for me 2 blues was worth around 1700 at 250 start so i got 2700 for my 1 pink
about green trade i bought 1st green but judd bid 1000 for second so i dint buy it because board was almost full except reds
helen u was in better position to judd because of ur blue + yellow set
at the time of green trade i had 3700 cash + 4 whites & 3 blacks & judd had only 400 cash left with no credit so how judd was winning that he should not have traded
he bought 4 whites for 2 green & made his position strong
at the end game was so close that i won just because judd hit green twice when i was in negative otherwise judd would have won
anyway i want mods should look into this & make their opinion
thanks
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[meg]

shouldnt thingsd like this be discussed in public not in random lobbys?

[trace567]

First trade brought into question -

trade accepted
game: 427810
game is ranked
2009/11/07 09:04:05
players at start: 5
players alive: 4
start money: 255
roll: 76
game time: 18:54

players:
0 bottle_of_wine points:40886 position:33 cash: 51 credit: 150
1 villageidiot points:12167 position: 0 cash: 1446 credit: 900
2 gentlemen points:39619 dead
3 pencil points:25880 position: 0 cash: 1393 credit: 200
4 GLAMAZON points: 8408 position:30 cash: 1447 credit: 150

Trade:
From bottle_of_wine to villageidiot
Cash: 1000

1 color: 250 @= owner:3 h:0 Nanobot Hospital
2 color: 150 @= no owner Information Network
3 color: 250 @= owner:3 h:0 Cellular Regeneration
5 color: 194 @= owner:0 tot:1 Water Extractors
6 color: 249 @= no owner Terraforming Facilities
8 color: 249 @= owner:3 Rain Generators
9 color: 249 @= no owner Hydroponics Bay
11 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Emotion Market
12 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Brainplug Reality Center
13 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Holo Dome
14 color: 150 @= owner:0 tot:1 Pipes
15 color: 194 @= owner:3 tot:1 Air Extractors
16 color: 247 @= no owner Antigravitational Transpo
18 color: 247 @= no owner Space Elevator
19 color: 247 @= no owner Teleportation Control
21 color: 253 @= no owner Superconducting Magnetic
22 color: 253 @= TAKING owner:1 Anti Matter Power Plant
24 color: 253 @= TAKING owner:1 Cold Fusion Power Plant
25 color: 194 @= no owner Carbon Extractors
26 color: 254 @= no owner Timewarp Restaurant
27 color: 150 @= no owner Garbage Dezintegrators
28 color: 254 @= no owner Intergalactic Hotel
29 color: 254 @= no owner Cyborg Theatre
31 color: 252 @= owner:1 Zero Gravity Lab
33 color: 252 @= GIVING owner:0 Spaceport
34 color: 252 @= owner:1 Interstellar Gate
35 color: 194 @= no owner Silicon Extractors
36 color: 251 @= no owner Planetary Marketing
37 color: 150 @= no owner Energy Channeling Center
38 color: 251 @= no owner Brainwave Propaganda Stud
39 color: 251 @= no owner Brainwave Propaganda Tran

Only set already up was brown (GLAMAZON owned) only 1 black and 2 white were so far bought (all others still available), bottle_of_wine (sim) owned 1 white 1 black. Helen also owned 2 yellow, with no upgrades and 1 white.

The trade IMO is early for pink. As Helen says pink are very strong and don't take too long to get built up. The trade left 200 short of 1 upgrade on them, with little competition on the board.

Value wise, the trade was 1000 cash and 2 dark blue (each having 400 credit). On base value alone that makes 1800. Theoretically on paper value exchanged was beneficial to both. But yes, I do not think giving pink so early with no back up of income (other than 1 black, 1 white) is really sensible.

Verdict on this trade - Its certainly not a out right cheat trade. Its in my eyes a grey area trade. Certainly a risky trade to give pink so early without already having something to guarantee ability to compete against them. Glamazon and pencil having at least property they could use. But at the same time, if helen upgraded yellow, this would leave her cash low, if pink were being built would leave cash low there, leaving glamazon to bid up. So in that sense would be possible to get things cheap. But still very risky.

Looking over the how the game panned out after the trade, sim was left in a position of trying to get trades in order to get anything more than 3 white, as black became blocked and dark blue also.


Next trade questioned -

trade accepted
game: 427810
game is ranked
2009/11/07 09:38:10
players at start: 5
players alive: 4
start money: 25
roll: 347
game time: 52:59

players:
0 bottle_of_wine points:40886 position:12 cash: 3763 credit: 550
1 villageidiot points:12167 position: 0 cash: 487 credit: 550
2 gentlemen points:39619 dead
3 pencil points:25880 position:10 cash: 58 credit: 1800
4 GLAMAZON points: 8408 position:10 cash: 246 credit: 480

Trade:
From villageidiot to bottle_of_wine
Cash: 0

1 color: 250 @= owner:3 h:5 Nanobot Hospital
2 color: 150 @= owner:0 tot:3 Information Network
3 color: 250 @= owner:3 h:5 Cellular Regeneration
5 color: 194 @= TAKING owner:0 tot:4 Water Extractors
6 color: 249 @= owner:4 Terraforming Facilities
8 color: 249 @= owner:3 Rain Generators
9 color: 249 @= owner:3 Hydroponics Bay
11 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Emotion Market
12 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Brainplug Reality Center
13 color: 248 @= owner:4 h:4 Holo Dome
14 color: 150 @= owner:0 tot:3 Pipes
15 color: 194 @= TAKING owner:0 tot:4 Air Extractors
16 color: 247 @= owner:4 h:3 Antigravitational Transpo
18 color: 247 @= owner:4 h:3 Space Elevator
19 color: 247 @= owner:4 h:3 Teleportation Control
21 color: 253 @= owner:3 h:4 Superconducting Magnetic
22 color: 253 @= owner:3 h:4 Anti Matter Power Plant
24 color: 253 @= owner:3 h:4 Cold Fusion Power Plant
25 color: 194 @= TAKING owner:0 tot:4 Carbon Extractors
26 color: 254 @= owner:3 Timewarp Restaurant
27 color: 150 @= owner:4 tot:1 Garbage Dezintegrators
28 color: 254 @= owner:4 Intergalactic Hotel
29 color: 254 @= owner:3 Cyborg Theatre
31 color: 252 @= owner:1 h:4 Zero Gravity Lab
33 color: 252 @= owner:1 h:4 Spaceport
34 color: 252 @= owner:1 h:4 Interstellar Gate
35 color: 194 @= TAKING owner:0 tot:4 Silicon Extractors
36 color: 251 @= GIVING owner:1 Planetary Marketing
37 color: 150 @= owner:0 tot:3 Energy Channeling Center
38 color: 251 @= GIVING owner:1 Brainwave Propaganda Stud
39 color: 251 @= owner:0 Brainwave Propaganda Tran


Village has by now bought 2 green and lost cash by doing so. Owns nothing but the 2 green and pink. Buying the green has dropped his cash down low.
At the time of this trade, Ju (Villageidiot) had put himself in a very dangerous position. By now yellow and dark blue were owned up and running by helen. Brown was up and cyan level 3 owned by glamazon.
Sim had accumulated a lot of cash, from 3 black and 4 extractors (4th extractor gain by trade on dark blue).

Verdict on this trade - 4 extractor for 2 green (making a set)

I see this trade as being 100% fine. He needed more than pink by this stage to really stand a chance. Giving green would help to weaken the other 2 players. Whilst he gained the whites income.

This trade is fine, but i do wonder why he bought both green, unless he had in mind to trade, which maybe the case and would be a good trade. So either way doesn't matter.

So my overall decision is based on the 1st trade involving pink. I'm not happy about the trade, but it certainly isn't a clear cut cheat trade. It was risky, and I feel it took a lot of trade ablity to make this work. But yes Sim is good with trading in that way. But trades can never be relied upon. People can reject trades.

Before ruling this 100% i will ask CYN to view that trade and see if I missed anything. But if I haven't, I will rule it borderline with possibly 25% reduction

[sim5]

dont agree at all
i got 1000 + 2 dark blues for 1 pink
whats the use for 1 pink for me
why helen or glazamon didnt block judds pink when both had cash
why should i use my cash to block & let others make their sets & upgrade
that was a very good trade & i got value for my 1 pink which was useless for me
how can selling a 1 pink for that much a cheat trade when judd had only 1400
i simply dont agree at all
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[trace567]

Sim made a mistake trying to quote my post, he actually deleted it and posted his rely so it looked like me,

Thankfully i had copied and pasted my original before posting, in case the forum logged me out. So it was still there - Thank heavens.


The above post my me, is the post that Sim messed up.
It's just now in the wrong order.

[meg]

who opened pink?

[judd]

are you telling me that trading green for white is NOT a common trade?

get real

[aussie]

during game judd said to sim to get 3rd green so it was clear that both of you were working together.


.my question to judd is why spend around 1700 on 2 green to begin with if he strapped for cash

and if you say you bought green for credit judd then why trade away your credit

imo you work well as a team
_________________
why try so hard to fit in ....when you were born to stand out

[sim5]

if pink was cheap so early why helen didnt blocked his pink ?
what would have happen to my 1 pink if judd had gotten his 3rd blue?
wouldnt i have lost 1000 + 2 blues ?
why should i suffer for just 1 pink where i spend almost 1900 when others were keeping their cash ?
_________________

No expectations, no disappointments.

[meg]

i'll ask once more who opened THIRD pink?

[judd]

[aussie]

[trace567]

Please can all wait until I can have CYN look over this trade, and log etc.

I have stated my view, and I stand by it. But to be fair as it is GREY area trading, I am asking off my own back (I dont have to ask another view, but am choosing to).

Please allow time for this 2nd view by another moderator, and a chance for us to then discuss both our conclusions. Out of that a final 100% final decision will be made.