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Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:12 am
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Magflag12
Moon


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 373

Post subject: Monopoly Values Reply with quote

** All of these are assuming you have obtained the entire set based off of base value and that you received the 20% from auctioning it**
** Also keep in mind that each estimate includes the money you have in downgrading your property***
** Also Keep in mind that this guide DOES NOT include credit which is a very important factor to keep in mind**
Yellow-

720
720 +

1440
1500 +

2950- 150 - 150 - 150 - 150 - 150 = 2200 (after downgrade inclusion)

That is the cost of buying a yellow at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the yellow set 10 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the yellow peice 5 times.

Each roll of your opponent has an approximate accounting value of 12.5 and an approximate game advantage value of 25. How many rolls it takes to make accounting profit: 176 game advantage profit: 88

Orange

80+80+80 = 240

240 + 1500= 1740

1740 - Downgrades (750) = 990


That is the cost of buying an orange set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the orange set 10 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the orange peice 5 times.

each roll of your opponent, when owning the orange, has an accounting value of 7.5 and a game advantage value of 15
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 132
Rolls for Game advantage: 66

Brown (9/10 times brown has greater profit gain if you do not upgrade 5 times, but 4)

160+160+160 = 480
480+2000 = 2480
2480 - Downgrade $ (1000) = 1480

That is the cost of buying an brown set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the brown set 12 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the brown peice 6 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the brown, has an accounting value of 9.75 and a game advantage value of 19.5
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 152
Rolls for Game advantage: 76

Light Blue

240+240+240 = 720
720+ 2000 = 2720
2720 - Downgrade (1000) = 1720

That is the cost of buying an light blue set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the light blue set 9 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the light blue peice 5 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the light blue, has an accounting value of 15 and a game advantage value of 30
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 115
Rolls for Game advantage: 58

Dark Blue ( many people would want me to point out that you make a profit off of buying dark blues if they are base price of 120$ but I wont include credit in the estimate values as credit is not cash and therefore does not need to be included in determining accounting profits)

320 + 320 + 320 = 960
960 + 3500= 4460
4460 - Downgrade (1750) = 2710

That is the cost of buying an dark blue set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the dark blue set 11 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the dark blue peice 6 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the Dark blue, has an accounting value of 18.75 and a game advantage value of 37.5
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 145
Rolls for Game advantage: 73

Red

480+480+480 = 1440
1440 + 2500 = 2940

2940 - 1250 = 1690

That is the cost of buying an red set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the red set 6 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the red peice 3 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the red, has an accounting value of 22.5 and a game advantage value of 45
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 76
Rolls for Game advantage: 38

Pink (This one I will show two upgrade plans to show you the advantage pink has in its upgrading scheme)

3 Upgrades:
640X3 = 1920
1920 + 1800 = 3720
3720 - Downgrade (900) = 2820

That is the cost of buying an pink set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the pink set 10 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the pink peice 5 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the pink, has an accounting value of 23.25 and a game advantage value of 46.5
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 122
Rolls for Game advantage: 61

2 Upgrades on Pink

1920 + 1200 = 3120
3120 - 600 = 2520

That is the cost of buying an pink set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the prink set 10 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the pink peice 5 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the pink, has an accounting value of 20.25 and a game advantage value of 40.5
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 125
Rolls for Game advantage: 63

*** Those are very similar** HOWEVER look at 5 upgrades

1920 + 3000 = 4920
4920- 1500 = 3420

That is the cost of buying an pink set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the pink set 10 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the pink peice 5 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the pink, has an accounting value of 26.25 and a game advantage value of 52.5
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 131
Rolls for Game advantage: 66

**The greatest of these in regards to least number of roles to acquire profit is 3 upgrades**

DRUM ROLL

GREEN

560X3 = 1680
1680 + 3000 = 4680
4680 - (Downgrade) = 3180

That is the cost of buying an green set at base value. To make an accounting profit your opponent must land on the green set 7 times.
To make a game advantage profit your opponent must land on the green peice 4 times

each roll of your opponent, when owning the green, has an accounting value of 37.5 and a game advantage value of 77
Rolls for Accounting Proft: 85
Rolls for Game advantage: 43

NOW I will tell you the amount a player should bid on each monopoly to level the profit values to the same amount of rolls needed to make a profit.
_________________
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.


Last edited by Magflag12 on Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:00 am
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Magflag12
Moon


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 373

Post subject: Reply with quote

To level the playing field out we will create a value of each monopoly to 176 rolls needed to gain an economic profit and 88 to make a game advantage profit.

Here we Go:

Yellow- Buy at base value and upgrade 5 times (auction both of them)

Orange- Buy all three for a total of of 540 and upgrade 5 times

Brown- Buy all three for a total of 716 and upgrade 5 times

Light Blue - Buy all three for a total of 1640 and upgrade 5 Times

Dark Blue - Buy for a total of 1550 and upgrade 5 Times

Red- Buy for a total of 3710 and upgrade 5 times

Pink- Buy for a total of 3192 and upgrade 3 times

Green- Buy for a total of 5100 and upgrade 5 times.

Very interesting indeed. Do not be mistaken though. Sets like Orange are achieved earlier than green sets 9/10 times, because of location. The average 2p probably has 400 rolls, 200 of which are yours obviously. This shows you that the power of game advantage profit is a lot more essential than economic profit as economic profit will not always be achieved, and that is ok. Players who buy a peice early in the game and expect to sell it later for a bigger price, your have flawed logic, as the piece's value has depreciated and is not worth as much as there are no longer as many rolls. 176 rolls is quite a bit of rolls so, with that said, understand that in a 2p game 176 is almost half the average, it may be easy to recieve the monopolies such as orange that quick, but green it will not be easy. It is hard to calculate the amount of rolls it would take for orange, the easy figure we can come up with is based off of constant rolling and never going back to start so it is completely innaccurate. In this, we would see that the amount of rolls it would take to achieve green are exactly equal it wouldd take to achieve orange. It takes 14 rolls to hit one orange, 20 rolls to hit the second orange, and 40 to hit the third. which is 74 rolls. That applies for green. However, being that you go back to start it takes MORE rolls for green, and often less rolls for orange, because you can simply auction to go back to start. All of these are factors.

Also remember that if you were to distribute the monopolies out amongsts 8 players all having one monopoly, but having to pay equal the prices above with a starting cash of 5100 (meaning the one who gets the highest valued set will start out with a fully upgrade green, but with 0 cash and the one who starts with the lowest valued set wiill have a fully upgraded set, but will start with more cash I.E. Orange = 4560) If the game ended when there had been 176 rolls, theoretically, they would all have the same amount of cash (excluding double rolls). However, if you were to make it where the game ended with 300 rolls, it is obvious that after the marginal return was no longer marginal, but was becoming a "super" profit, that green would have more cash in the end.

Therefore, the peices are only worth how many rolls are left in the game.
_________________
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.


Last edited by Magflag12 on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:12 am
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MrCrabbs
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Damn fine work Magflag. My fear is that this endangers hiding the wood behind the trees, but it should help if used correctly.

Also, please remove the term "economic profit" where used, and replace with simply "profit" or better still "accounting profit". The term Economic Profit has a specific meaning, namely, it is the profit over and above the next best use of the resources, ie: over and above the opportunity cost.
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:18 am
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Magflag12
Moon


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 373

Post subject: Reply with quote

I am actually aware of the term economic profit, lol, here in the U.S. most people refer to it as Super Profit and we say economic profit as a means to describe profit. Just a cultural thing, but I did learn what you are saying in Micro and Macroeconomics. So I will put accounting profit as you suggest so I don't confuse someone who may be economic wiz like you and will wonder when the hell Microsoft took over this game.

Did you understand the term Game Advantage Profit,, I made it up as it is unique to this game.
_________________
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:27 am
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MrCrabbs
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Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks MagFlag. I am taught by loads of American Professors and use mainly American Textbooks so I am surprised I haven't heard this use of Economic Profit to mean accounting profit, though yeah I have heard of Supernormal/Abnormal profit to mean Economic profit in the sense I described it.

About the Term "Game Advantage Profit", yeah I understood it. I think that the term previously used by Fingerbang and possibly others before him to mean this is "Swing". It swings money in your favour twice as fast as it lands in your account. I actually prefer this older term, since it does not imply that this is the sole measure to look at for descerning advantage in the game.

I am absolutely loving your work on this. I have a question or two but for brevity I will post that in the next post in a second.


Last edited by MrCrabbs on Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:07 am
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trace567
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Wow magflag you've been busy. Thanks for doing this. Interesting reading (all your posts)
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:34 am
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YAAAHOOOO3
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if i figure out how to fully understand this does it demonstate which properties in varying combinations of upgrades are fairly equivalent in value ? ive noticed when i try to go for one monoply the opponent seems to base their strategy on which monoply to aquire next based on this... for example they will get all the purples and upgrading only 2x w/purples normally suck

ive also noticed the landing probabilities are such to even out the game as much as possible like if i were to quickly get a monoply then my opponent who's going for a monoply has a higher chance of landing on the spaces required to obtain it... also if ive got more $ early on the opponent will more easily get the rolls to catch up... anyone else think this is true?

finally ive noticed it seems adventagous to be either the 1st to get all extractors or utilities but when u do this the oppenent more easily lands on the other extractor or utility you didnt aquire more of but it seems seriously adventagous to be the 1st to aquire the 1st monopoly or most of either the extractors or utilities esp if your opponent sux lol
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:17 am
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Magflag12
Moon


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 373

Post subject: Reply with quote

It does show which monopolies are equivalent in value. Keep in mind that every monopoly can be equal to another. Even Orange to Green. If you achieve Orange very early and your opponent achieves it very late, your opponent has less time to achieve a profit, where you have most likely began making your profit. A monopoly is simply only worth how many rolls are left in the game. (which is an unpredictable variable.)

This game is a program, a program is based off of math. In no way does one's chances of hitting a particular square increase or decrease based off of game situation. The only way that your chances of hitting a square can increase is if your position changes on the board to maximize your probabiity factor. 6, 7, and 8 are the most highly frequent numbers, where as 1 and 12 are the lowest. The fact that you feel this way is based off of a number of things. Psychology and even attitude can come into play here. When it rains on your clothes you think "why me?" as if your the only one that got rained on. When you are down in cash and one lands on a needed square you immediately assume that this unfortunate event occurred based off your status and your vice. This game is not effected by your triumphs or your errancies.

That is mostly true, as for your last point. If you achieve a monopoly first you have more time to gain profit. However, a wise player knows how to use this to his advantage. If you see a player quickly give to a weaker set it is because that player most likely WANTS his opponent to spend money on that set. He knows that he may make profit of it... its ok for your opponent to make profit. Your goal is to make more profit than he does. After the opponent achieves a weak set and upgrades it you have the advantage of disposable income. An advantage that if used correctly can achieve you a set with greater profit promises.
_________________
If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them.
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